Little did I know when I woke up this morning that two moose would be on the loose a stone’s throw from my daughter’s school in Orleans.
The two young moose (yearling bulls I believe) were discovered roaming around L’Ecole des Pionniers this am, and officials have been trying ever since to tranquilize the uneasy ungulates.
Disoriented moose are nothing new to the Ottawa-area, often getting pushed out of the forest by black flies or mosquitoes this time of year, and occasionally becoming sick from brain worm, they tend to loose their fear of humans.
It is unknown whether these particular bullwinkles are sick or simply disoriented. The public is being urged to steer clear of the Merkley Drive /Charlemagne area of Orleans.
Outdoorsguy
Just read that one of the young moose was shot and killed by the Ottawa police tactical squad.
That was real close to my home!
must realy be a bad berry year 🙂
but if it’s a bear they just leave it to go back on it’s own
those moose sure are dangerous
The report is the moose were hit with `several tranq darts`..which makes me wonder since the amount of tranquilizer
used should have pre-determined based on the young bulls weight….
Anyhow, they say there was no choice but to shoot it…
Outdoorsguy
sad really, to see a young animal make a mistake and it cost them their life
my son saw a young moose 417 at boundary road last saturday night. dont see them very often this side of larose forest but occasionally do. kinda curious if it would be same one that travelled to orleans.
Ottawa police tactical squad for a moose.What!!! Do they not get enough practice.It would be nice if they shot a few more bad guys instead.Or maybe that was the only way one of them could claim to have harvested a moose.Maybe they should have tased it or used tear gas.I’m sorry but i’m not a big fan of our police force.In the cities rush to stick uniforms on there quota of recrutes they have stuck a gun on the hip of some real cowboys.
paul, would you want just a plain old cop to shoot the moose, or somebody that is going to take the shot and not miss in a very public area. as i see in the paper, is that not a school ground in the background? and if you are calling cops cowboys, give your head a shake. i have relatives on the force, and some find it hard to put down an animal. i have seen what they can do to a car or truck if they bolt out in front of a vehicle. i really sucks they had to shoot it, but i can see where public safety comes into play. just my two cents…
For those who are interested, I will be discussing this moose issue on CHEZ 106 FM’s Doc and Woody Show this am..
Outdoorsguy
Jaye, you can’t really blame Paul for being angry here…it sure doesn’t put the Ottawa police in a very good light..and then to mention it was their tactical squad just adds fuel to fire. The thing is, though, these cops are basically set-up for failure in these situations..I dont believe they are properly trained to use tranqs or understand big-game behaviour…and the end-result is usually the same, they resort to the sidearms.
Sure, adult bull moose have been known to be dangerous during the rut..but I honestly don’t think these two young bulls were much to be concerned about..in the end, the one young bull apparently panicked which could have been bad I suppose…but its not the same degree of severity as say a black bear loose in someone’s yard..or even an adult bull during the rut.
Outdoorsguy
Hi Jeff, I’ll definitely be interested in what you will have to say regarding this issue from a hunter’s perspective – I asked my husband and he said that moose can be very dangerous when cornered but I am an animal lover at heart so of course, I was shocked, and my question was why didn’t someone from the MNR get involved.
Dan’s wife
Dear Dan’s wife…how’s the old man doing?
Yeah, just got off the air actually..and the issue I discussed with Doc & Woody was the jurisdictional issue the MNR has with the City of Ottawa..same prob came to light with the coyotes in Osgoode.
Since the MNR’s jurisdiction ends (or at least blurs) at city limits, their hands are somewhat tied sometimes when it comes to these things. I would like to think the MNR would have handled this situation better..and sure, moose can be dangerous, but even a hunter can feel sad when one is destroyed needlessly. I know I feel badly about it.
I suppose the city cops are set-up for failure, in a way..expected to properly tranq a moose and relocate it. If two tranquilizer darts don’t take down a 400 pound yearly bull…there is a problem with the dosage.
I know they say there are other factors to consider with tranquilizing a big-game animal..ex, location of the hit, the fact that stressed animal may not react the same way as a relaxed animal, etc
None the less, it was a needless death in my opinion, but I believe the police felt that had no other choice as the young bull was starting to panic!
Outdoorsguy
i hear what you are saying. i saw in some of the pics they had12 gauges, and that is what they probably used. all i was saying is that you want somebody that shoots and practices all the time firing their weapons. i have hunted big game now for 27 yrs, and i understand about the rut. it is the bolting out into the public when mama and her minivan is driving down the road. i have seen moose the pass week at the 174 and montreal exit. i let my co-workers know that they are around, and be carefull. they are used to people and the noise around the city, and are not as carefull as they should be. like i said it was a real shame. i enjoy seeing them every chance i get.
where you at fleming when the deer ran down the halls after i busted through the window by the caf. it was quite the site to see everybody running for cover. it had to be put down, and used in the f&w classes for study purposes.
Hey Jaye, sorry, I forgot you went to SSFC…Aquaculture, right?
No, a deer running down the halls I would have remembered! It must have been after(or before) my time there…I did, however, see a lot of dead deer in Harrison’s big-game management lab…hehe
Thanks for contributing and great to hear from you again
Outdoorsguy
so the police dart it ….. then kill it …… WHAT A WASTE they should have just shot it and given the meat to the people that can use a good meal… now the animal is completely wasted…. shame on the people in charge
here we go again, could someone please give me a proven incident of a bull moose hurting or killing a human when in the rut….other than a vehicle/moose accident.
the police and the locals should have just left these two moose alone. Instead they molest, chase, frighten the two yearlings to the point they are so confused and scared they don’t know what to do, they panic and then the police justify the killing. Sick Do you think the police didn’t know the moose would panic, they had them cornered, I’ll bet there would have been a lot less brave cops it was a 400 lbs bear, hahaha, a lot of these big shots would have found a reason to go someplace else to finish paperwork, or go buy donuts
If it had been a bear, the bear would probably have run back into the bush and disappear, calm itself and follow it’s way back to where it came from, but moose react differently and now at least one is dead and probably both but the police won’t tell you about the second one. Sick
Hey Jeff it”s funny the last time there was a moose on the loose at the park and ride there was no MNR same thing this time . They should have got a hold of some of the good old cumberland boys and we could have had them lassoed ,hog tied and transported to Larose forest before anybody could get upset over this .
That’s right Paul, and even when the MNR CO’s are involved there’s hardly enough of them to go around.
So, you figure you could have hog-tied those little bulls, eh?
Outdoorsguy
Iggy this may interest you. A very quick check came up with this quote from: Outdoor & Adventure Education Injury/Fatality Rates & Comparative Statistics
“In the United States and Canada, you have more to fear from moose (six deaths per year) than any other creature except snakes (12).”
Rick, I know some creatures in the US I’d be more scared of…hehe
I don’t know you, but if given the choice to be unarmed and face to face with an animal in the bush, I’d much rather it be a moose..then say a griz, black bear or cougar..
Rick, the only mention of moose-related attacks I could find was in Alaska..where they say ‘more people die each year in that state from moose, than they do from bears.’
But again, there does not seem to be any stats to support that statement.
Outdoorsguy
I just found a great link discussing moose-related deaths around the world:
http://www.chacha.com/question/how-many-deaths-do-moose-account-for-a-year-in-north-america
I suppose one thing we never thought of was the number of people killed by moose on Canadian highways..as in Newfoundland.
Outdoorsguy
Jeff I know you said it was boundary issues that the mnr wasnt invovled but dont you find that goverment departement almost like just a shell of its former self. are there actuall employees in that department anymore or is just a figurehead to keep money coming. theyve had so many cutbacks in the last 20 some years its a joke.
Yes Dan…unfortunately, it does seem that the MNR’s bite has lost some teeth in recent years…man, I can remember back in the 80’s and early 90’s when I worked a couple of projects for them, money seem to be no object! They had lots of great programs and initiatives on the go each year in wide-range of areas covering big-game, small mammals, fisheries, waterfowl, etc, etc
To give you an example, the students who took Fish & Wildlife at SSFC as I did..were all basically being ‘groomed’ for jobs with the MNR..we did volunteer and co-op with many MNR Districts and at the time many graduates landed decent careers working for the Ministry! Then as time went on, less and less graduates (me, for example) ended up working for the MNR on a fulltime basis..
This problem was especially evident in the Natural Resources Law Enforcement Program..for which I hardly see the need for any longer, with so few CO’s left..
I ask you..how did this happen?
I consider myself to be somewhat ‘out of loop’ now after all these years…to figure out what really went wrong…to go from what I considered some of the best fish and wildlife management practises in the country, to what mcDan described so aptly as a ‘shell of its former self’
It’s a bloody shame if you ask me!!
Outdoorsguy
mcdan .. thats is because the government is giving money to organizations under a differnt budget and not giving it to the mnr.. it is really sad to see.
Well will you take a look at the pic in todays Ottawa Sun.Here we have one of Ottawa’s finest shotgun at the ready pointed at the moose and the photogragher behind him.Doesn’t this show a fine example of safety first.Whether he is loaded(which i think he is )or not there should be charges brought against that officer for careless us of a firearm,reckless endangerment,cause god knows if you or i did it we would have a lot of explaining to do.I also wonder how long they gave the tranquilizer dart to work on a 600-800pd moose. What ,maybe 20-30 seconds then open fire.It reminds me of a couple years ago when my wife hit a deer on hwy7.The deer rolled over the car and into the ditch and then got up and headed into the field full of snow.My son was going to take after it expecting to find it dead or in shock.The first cop says to his buddy as he puts his hand on his gun,(well i guess we should go and dispatch that deer)all the while trying to play tough guy in front of my son.My son ,who is not shy of words says to the cop.(I guess it will be your first time using those things eh)The cop was not amused and niether one went after the deer.
worked for MNR as jr. ranger back in ’81 tried to get back on in summer of 82 in ‘any’ capacity and was told there was a hiring freeze and the person that i was in contact with told me i should be looking at another career choice as he saw it getting worse instead of better. thats 28 years ago {wow im getting old}. but i ask all outdoorsmen out there were does our money go. every year i have a fishing licence, a small game licence. a deer tag, a bear tag ect…what does this money go to. this moose incidence is only one example amongs many others. i find our deer herds have been mismanaged and from what i can gather moose is another issue, too many damn canada geese i could go on. my guess folks is the MNR will be another importent department gone to a highest bidding contractor . its happend to other dep. and heaard talk the other day that ministry of labor is next. THEN WHAT. it becomes a money making buisness for a group or indivdual. I think the MNR has been set up to fail for that purpose. if im wrong what can we do to change this. im not sure
bye the way i think MNR not being able or capable to anwer this call is a much bigger issue than police shooting it. they did the best they could. most of those cops probably never seen a moose before let alone know what to do IE.. leave the moose alone to wander off. just my two cents
When did this become a police bashing blog ? I guess they should have gotten the fire dept out of bed to deal with it.
Not sure how many of the arm chair experts who have commented here have any experience with dealing with a wild animal in an urban environment but I can tell you, from my experience of a couple of hats, that they can be unpredictable to the point where they present a danger, and yes unfortunately this is often caused by the authorities actions.
I agree that leaving the animals alone to find their way out is the best option, but not always possible.
As for the tranquilizing, I know of only a few Police services who are trained in animal tranquilizing and I don’t know for a fact but I would be surprised if the Ottawa Police have someone on staff for this. I would suggest that the tranquilizer administrator was a member of the Humane Society or By-law enforcement. (The MNR also have several)
If they hit it with two darts then they need a refresher course…..There are many factors that have to be considered when tranquilizing including: poitical pressure, surroundings, placement of shot, muscle mass, size and weight of the animal, type of drugs, expiration of and access to the drugs etc…..My guess is that the first shot was not placed well and the the dart did not penetrate properly and the second one was either not placed right caused by increased political pressure, desperation and anxiety to end a situation or insufficient or expired drugs…Only the shooter knows for sure. Either way these actions only caused more stress for the animal so the Police had no choice.
I sympathise with the officer who had to shoot it.
Trapper, I don’t think we’re really bashing the Ottawa police dept here..we do understand – at least I do -that this situation is out of their hands as the police service have, in my opinion, been set-up for failure.
From what I was told on Friday..it sounds like the City of Ottawa is really the one to blame…here’s why:
According to Scott Smithers of the MNR..who shared his frustration with me on this situation..the MNR – Kemptville District’s official ‘party line’ is that nuisance wildlife is normally the responsibility of the landowner.
He went to say that in situations where public safety is a concern, however, the OPP or local police then handle the situation. Scott claims that the City of Ottawa did had a contract with the National Capital Commission (NCC) at one time, and prior to 2008, NCC conservation officers would have responded to the Orleans moose situation- on behalf of the city.
The City of Ottawa evidently did not renew this contract, did not make alternative arrangements and up until last week, were lucky that something more series hasn’t occurred in the city over the last 2 years!
Outdoorsguy
who’s bashing police, they did what they know how to do, kill LOL
it’s the MNR that should have stepped in, but they are now just a tax (licenses)
collection agency
I wasn’t suggesting that you were cop bashing Jeff but rather some of the armchair quarter backs who responded twisted it that way or at least tried to (apparently they’ve crawled back in their hole)
Quote: “paul harris says: June 1, 2010 at 10:42 pm Ottawa police tactical squad for a moose.What!!! Do they not get enough practice.It would be nice if they shot a few more bad guys instead.Or maybe that was the only way one of them could claim to have harvested a moose.Maybe they should have tased it or used tear gas.I’m sorry but i’m not a big fan of our police force.In the cities rush to stick uniforms on there quota of recrutes they have stuck a gun on the hip of some real cowboys.” End quote
Cough !
Trapper let me calm your nerves.Yes i was cop bashing.With a total lack of any knowledge about moose behavior we probably had half the ottawa police force there with guns drawn.And yes i questioned very stongly the need for the tactical squad.What i failed to say was with all the criminal activity going on in the city,with all the dangerous drivers racing around,with all the nut cases they should be looking into,why in gods name did a couple disoriented moose bring the tactical team out.Oh and by the way i’m out of “the hole”.
QUOTE: “with all the criminal activity going on in the city,with all the dangerous drivers racing around,with all the nut cases they should be looking into,why in gods name did a couple disoriented moose bring the tactical team out” END QUOTE
Don’t blame them for doing their job.
If Blame someone you must:
Blame the politiians who resist hiring more officers to look into those issues you raise,
Blame the Judges for not locking up the ones that are caught,
Blame the Government for enacting toothless legislation,
Blame the Government for appointing Liberal minded Judges,
Blame the Probation Parole system for letting bad guys out of jail,
Blame the court systems that let defense lawyers control court room decorum,
Blame Pierre Trudeau for creating all of this…
My nerves are calmer now so you can crawl back in your hole….LOL
Trapper & Paul…you realize this is another one of ‘their’ tactics too…and it’s as old as the hill:
Divide and concur!!
See, they have way more $$ than we do…otherwise, we’d be on top of situations like the Orleans moose on the loose..which led to the whole debate about whether the Ottawa Police did the right thing!
Honestly, this group are not only Marketing geniuses they know psychology too…is there anything they can’t do…lol
Outdoorsguy