Winter weather is tough enough on white-tailed deer populations, and domestic dogs on the loose will only exacerbate the situation!
I can recall one morning a couple of winters ago as I was leaving for work, the howl of a barking animal in the back field broke the early morning silence. At first I thought it was a coyote but its distinctive domestic canine sound reverberated.
One of my neighbour’s dogs had apparently gotten loose and was chasing deer through the field!
My heart sank as I knew the implications. The deer I was feeding at the time, which included an orphaned fawn and a buck with a bad leg (pictured above) were not seen again for more than a week.
I never did locate the dog, but evidently it had put the run on them good as my lame buck returned limping worse than ever. Less than 3 weeks later that same buck could walk no more and the Ottawa Police were called-in to have it put down.
The incident was a first-hand reminder of why we must control our pets especially during wintertime!
Pet owners who allow their animals to run wild -regardless of the breed – are not only breaking the law, their actions can be devastating for deer at a fragile time of year. MNR Conservation Officers deal with belligerent pet-owners every winter and are authorized to destroy any dogs observed chasing or injuring deer in areas where herds gather for the winter. Penalties for allowing your dog to be at large during the closed season for deer, range anywhere from $155 up to $25,000.
Both domestic and feral dogs can create undue stress for whitetails as they gather in yards for protection. At this time of year, when deer subsist largely off fat reserves, the simple act of running through deep snow can drain much needed energy reserves, and leave the animals unable to cope with cold winter temperatures. Winter stress is also directly proportional to the health of fawns born in the spring.
Should you witness any dogs on the loose in your area, please call 1-877-TIPS-MNR (847-7667) toll-free any time.
Dog that are seen chasing deer in the winter should be shot, I know at our cottage, in Quebec, dogs that chase deer are legally shot. They won’t stop chasing them, and most times it’s not “dogs that got loose” it’s dogs that were let loose
Yes iggy…it is serious issue over there and the QC MNR dont take kindly to dogs running around loose!
I can remember years ago my father telling me about a man he ran into in St. Jovite(Tremblant) one time who said he lets his dog chase deer in the deer yard during the winter, and he has seen him take deer down more than once. My father said the jerk almost chuckled while telling him the story.
Dad was so angry he wanted to punch the guy in the face…instead he acted cool asked his name and where the man lived, and then reported it to the QC MNR. Never heard what happened but hopefully they kept a close eye on this idiot!
Outdoorsguy
the local fox hunting club got charged for runing dogs with no permits and allowing them to chase deer.. they ended up with 1200 fines.. not enough
I had no idea this was such a problem. It’s hard to imagine that people would let their dogs run loose like that. I’ve never encountered that and I hope I never do.
The local (Quebec) MNR guy told our neighbour at the cottage that if his dogs are seen again loose, they will be shot. The owner is a nice person and likes to let the dogs run but the dogs come home with blood on their faces and he knows what it is. The snow isn’t too deep yet, and there is no real crust, but when it does crust up it is a killer for the deer
Well Iggy, as the Quebec MNR guy and the rest of us know…(kind of a cliché I guess)but it’s not the dogs to blame, it is the owners. Dog’s instinctively chase animals, it’s in their blood. Of course my dog weighs 15 pounds so her animals are limited to squirrels, however most larger breeds would chase deer if given the opportunity.
Pet owners NEED to know they’re not doing their animal’s any favour by allowing them to run-around freely in deer country..that may just get them shot and killed!
Not sure if OMNR CO’s are as open to shooting feral dogs as they are on QC side..I know they are ‘authorized to destroy any dogs seen chasing deer’ but does it actually happen?
Anyone know?
Outdoorsguy
Good article Jeff! Some folks don’t realize that their dogs can chase deer for a long distance. Unreal!
We have a problem where the neighbor to my buddies land lets his dogs run loose all the time. Despite being asked not to let them do that.
🙁
Keebler, your buddy’s neighbor may just get an unfortunate surprise one day.
I suppose I am hypersensitive to the issue (I write about it almost every winter) which goes back to when I was a kid in high school.
Driving home on the bus one day (was more than 1 hour each way to get to school) we all watched in horror from the bus windows as two dogs from a neighboring village had a deer cornered out on the ice of Round Lake. These friggin dogs were tearing that poor animal limb from limb..it was very difficult to watch as a 14 year old, and something you never forgot. The bus driver honked the horn over and over and it did little to stop the attack.
Worst part..we found out later, once the deer was dead..the dog’s simply left the carcass there on the ice..bastards!
Outdoorsguy
Awful article – you guys need to give your head a shake.
Why should we shoot one animal for another? It is the HUMANS that let the dogs go. The dogs are acting instictively. Its funny how its always adult humans who are to blame yet its the dogs and the children or other animals that suffer.
Do you condone shooting wolves or coyotes because they are chasing the deer? (ok, you probably do never mind that they are doing what humans are doing – feeding themselves.)
Do you condone shooting operators of snowmobiles or four wheelers? – Let alone the regular noise they make, if you think there arent guys out there that will harass deer for sport on these machines your are very misguided.
Your article fails to note that many more white tail ( and countless other animals) will have been significantly disturbed to build your houses or cottages.
Why dont you ban drivers as there are PLENTY MORE deer killed by people driving than are chased by dogs.
There is also an argument to be made for the harm YOU are doing by feeding the animals!
Put the blame where it belongs- on humnans – dont smugly hope for the dogs to be shot and say ‘oh well it is their owner’s fault’..
Dumb article “evidently it put the run on them good…” ANYTHING could have happened to that buck in the mean time but you sit there smug in your belief while another animal is shot because of humans.
Is it really ok to let your dog chase squirrels but not deer?
Ok animal lover, I’m confused…this is an awful article because we SHOULD be allowing domestic dogs to chase deer?
It has already been noted that dogs are not directly to blame..and that the onus is on pet-owners to keep them under control, however failing that, CO’s have no choice but to destroy animals who are left to run feral. (Btw…CO stands for Conservation Officer)
Oh, and regarding your statement; “Your article fails to note that many more white tail ( and countless other animals) will have been significantly disturbed to build your houses or cottages.” This article has NOTHING to do with urban sprawl or wildlife displacement..it is obvious from your statements that you do not condone hunting or believe in conservation and that is your choice. But anyone who doesn’t agree that dogs should NOT be left to chase and kill deer in the winter yarding areas, needs to have their head examined.
THAT is what the article is about!
Oh and your statement “Dumb article “evidently it put the run on them good…” ANYTHING could have happened to that buck in the mean time but you sit there smug in your belief while another animal is shot because of humans.” clearly shows you have NO idea what your talking about, or the history of that deer in question. Another buck shot because of humans? Did you read the article?? This buck was born and lived (& offered supplemental winter feed) on private property in area of NO HUNTING within the City of Ottawa no discharge zone.
Outdoorsguy
@animal lover
is a domestic dog the same as a wolf or coyote
that is, without a doubt, one of the stupidest things
I’ve ever seen written by an animal lover
domestic dogs don’t eat the animals they run down
does your love of animals do funny things to you?
animal lover wrote ‘Put the blame where it belongs- on humnans – dont smugly hope for the dogs to be shot and say ‘oh well it is their owner’s fault’”
well if we put the blame on humans would that not be the owner ???? or do you belive the owner is the animal and they should be able to vote as well, if you can talk them into voting the liberals out… i will not hunt for 1 year in canada ……
@ chessy. Yes my point is blame the owner. Not the dog.
@iggy I never said dog was same as wolf or coyote. Domestic dogs will often eat what they kill. I’m not sure where you get your “research” from. As for the anecdote about the dogs killing a deer and not eating it I’m fairly certain they would have eaten part of it. Big deer maybe it looked like nothing was eaten. But chances are it was partly eaten. The author is damning the dogs as basterds as if this was a fact when by the way it was written he was only 14 so it was a long time ago and is reporting gossip not what he actually witnessed.
@ “outdoorsguy”. Really, that is what CO stands for..? You simply believe the animal you love is worth more than other animals. You said it yourself pretty much admitting that you let your dog chase squirrels. I’m saying I don’t let my dog chase any animals. I’m saying I’m smart enough to realize the “scope” of your article and what it was about and I’m saying that it’s a terrible article because it neglects the facts of what are the true problems for deer. You don’t like dogs, I get it. Your animal is no more important than other animals. Humans are the main problem don’t blame the dogs or take it out on them- blame their owners.
I eat meat. I don’t mind hunters that hunt for meat I have eaten plenty of deer over the years. At no point did I say the buck was shot because of humans I meant another dog will be shot and you seem happy about that, because a) their owner doesn’t control them and b) people like you or the COs or police think is ok to shoot them instead of the hundreds of other options.
As for “believing in conservation”, sure I do. But it’s a big word and you seem happy to bend it to fit your world and I do not agree with that.
@Animal Lover, first off, I suggest you go back and re-read my comment where I mention squirrels..I said that my dog, because of her size, is limited to chasing squirrels. Do I actually let her chase squirrels? Hell no! But if given the chance she certainly would; however, I’m not about to let her run wild with the risk of her getting a nasty bite!
Also your statement regarding the dog attack I SAW on a deer back home with my own two eyes, you say; the author was only 14 so it was a long time ago and is reporting gossip not what he actually witnessed. and “I’m fairly certain they would have eaten part of it.”
Sir, you fail to remember that I was actually there witnessing the event and I KNOW FOR A FACT THE DOGS DID NOT EAT A SINGLE MORSEL!! A family friend lived on that lake and had to drag the UNEATEN carcass off the ice the following day. Gossip? Perhaps you should stop reading between the lines here and read what is actually written. Besides the fact that this was not the first time a dog has taken down a deer and left it to waste.
And you stated “You don’t like dogs, I get it.” Umm, did you miss the part where I actually own a dog? I have always owned dogs and consider myself(as most hunters are) to be an animal lover.
As far as ‘animal worth goes’…ok, you got me there…I do believe that deer are ‘worth’ more than squirrels..most biologists and wildlife managers would tend to agree with me on that one.
You also stated “I’m saying that it’s a terrible article because it neglects the facts of what are the true problems for deer.” Obviously sir, you’ve never read any of my other articles dealing with the MANY OTHER winter hazards faced by deer during winter months.
Btw..the ‘controlling dogs in deer yards’ notice is an annual release put-out by the Ministry of Natural Resources.
And if you’re suggesting that ‘humans’ are the true problem for deer…well, I’m not even going to touch that one.
Outdoorsguy
Note: I have asked a Biologist I know from MNR Kemptville District to stop by for further clarification. Not sure yet if he’ll be allowed to comment or not. I’ll also be getting in touch with my MNR Communications people in Toronto for a possible statement or release on the subject…
Outdoorsguy
statement will be keep your dog leashed in winter as chassing deer will be a hardship to the animals in deep snow .. and the only person allowed to shoot a dog running a deer is a C.O
THOUGHT I WOULD SAVE YOU SOME TIME SEE BELOW
Ministry Reminds Owners To Prevent
Dogs From Chasing Deer
The Ministry of Natural Resources reminds dog owners that it is illegal and dangerous to allow dogs to run loose and chase deer during the non-hunting season.
ABOUT CHASING DEER
▪
It’s very difficult for deer to run in deep snow or on ice.
▪
A deer chased by a dog can be injured, become exhausted or die.
STEPS TO PREVENT DOGS FROM CHASING DEER
▪
Dog owners are urged to keep their dogs leashed or in enclosures to ensure the safety of both dogs and deer.
▪
Under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, it is illegal to let a dog run at large in an area inhabited by deer, moose, elk or bear during the closed season.
▪
Under this legislation, the ministry’s conservation officers may charge dog owners and are authorized to destroy dogs found chasing deer if they cannot be called off the pursuit.
▪
The public can report incidents of dogs chasing deer to their local ministry office during regular business hours, or by calling 1-877-TIPS-MNR (847-7667) toll-free anytime.
Thanks Chessy, that is more or less what an MNR Rep would send me anyway.
Outdoorsguy
@animal lover
squirrels are rodents, I’m glad dogs chase them, and I just wish they would catch/eat more of them, they infest areas.
Domestic dogs chase deer for the chase, some when killed are gnawed on, but not eaten, check your facts.
Ever seen a carcass of a deer or moose after the wolves or coyotes get it. Well I have, and it’s called a skeleton, and ever see a deer after a dog chased it to death in deep snow, I have, and it’s a mess, discusting waste of a very good animal and not eaten.
So get your facts or STFU
Iggy, perhaps with a bit of training and finding common ground, we can do for Animal lover that we did for Carole K. She was against hunting too, but we agreed to disagree.
Outdoorsguy
I have never seen dogs chasing deer in winter but iggy is correct that it’s not normally a problem until dogs can run on the crust where the deer can’t. That’s a bad time of year to be a deer. Around here when the snow gets real deep, then and only then to the deer vacate to the yard and back when we used to get tons of snow it was great for the coyote chasers because they never had to worry about dogs on a deer. That is until the chase took them 30 minutes away, across a frozen lake, and through the local deer yard. Then they did everything they could to grab the dogs quick when the chase started to go that way because the deer would be flying across roads with all the commotion. I have seen two dogs, a Rottweiler, and a walker hound (both with collars) corner a coyote under a fallen tree against a page wire fence. I actually saw the two dogs lunging and barking first and it wasn’t until I backed up to investigate that I saw the coyote hunkered down and looking dead tired trying to defend itself from these two. I felt sorry for the coyote believe it or not so I got out of my truck to walk over and check it out. While the dogs sort of backed away from me the coyote slipped under the fence and crossed the road where I had just come. There was no doubt in my mind that those dogs were going to run it down and most likely kill it as soon as I left but they wouldn’t come anywhere near me.
Had this been on my place I wouldn’t call the ministry because they wouldn’t bother to send anyone and I can’t really blame them; what can they do? If they shoot them it has to be reported, then they are villains for shooting someone’s ‘couch’ dog that ‘never chases anything’. I would have tried to grab the dogs and find their owners, but if it happened a second time I would have used the rifle and no one would have been the wiser. I don’t like to kill things, especially Fido, but I don’t want or need dogs that frequently chase and more importantly kill, running loose around my house. Make no mistake, it’s a dog owner’s responsibility to know where their dogs are, no question. It’s the few that don’t give a shit and likely the ones who shouldn’t have a dog in the first place that make the news.
Wow johan, would love to have seen footage of that encounter..not something you see too often. As we know, a battle of one coyote vs one dog, regardless of the size or breed will always go in the coyote’s favour. When the yote is outnumbered is when the tables are turned..much like when 2, 3 and even 4 coyotes are hunting deer in a pack as wolves do.
Outdoorsguy
watch this …. WARNING VERY GRAFFIC
jeff id love to hear what a conservation officer has to say about it !! i actually complained about a guy who was “exersising” his hounds out of season running deer .. and once again sweet nothing was done about it
Ok Matt, that is unacceptable..I realize they are understaffed but come on!
Outdoorsguy
I always understood that if a dog was chasing deer on your property at any time it could be legally shot by you. Except during deer season, when it is legal to run dogs. Not that I have, or would, but it makes a compelling arguement to beligerant dog owners, of which I have seen many.
And you guys are right, the worst time for deer is when the snow melts and re-freezes to create a crust that even small dogs can run on top of but the deer go through and are not able to escape. This happens most often in March when the does are heavy with fawn. A terrible sight to imagine.
Deer have a hard time during any winter. That’s why populations decline so greatly during a particularly severe one. They die slowly in large numbers.
Not so for pet dogs let loose for a quick fun through the forest by owners who think ‘that’s so cute’. Fido getting exercise and I don’t have to walk a single step.
Animal lover, I applaud your comment on holding the owner responsible, not the instrument. If all ANTIS had your attitude, there would have been no agrument in favour of gun registration. Convenient switch of ethics eh?
I did want to add that I came across a fresh coyote kill a couple weeks ago and there was hardly a speck of flesh left on the bones. They even ate most of the bones!
They are at least efficient if nothing else.
Maple wrote; “I applaud your comment on holding the owner responsible, not the instrument. If all ANTIS had your attitude, there would have been no argument in favour of gun registration. Convenient switch of ethics eh?”
Brilliant!!
Outdoorsguy
you can not shoot a dog if its chasing deer only a co can do it … now if you’re a farmer and it is chasing your livestock its automatic death to the dog, if a farmer sees it, and if the farmer chooses to shoot dog.
@ Jeff .. Matt is correct.. the mnr is a depleted organization stripped beyond the bone. Calls have not been returned and complants come with , what can i do about it I am to busy already, the mnr officers must pick and choose there battles to get the best bang for there buck, In my oppinion and i have been dealing closly with the mnr for years, if its not on there priorty list it gets over looked
Hey Chessy, thanks for all your input (& research assistance) over the years..couldn’t have done it without you. Here’s to some improved luck for you and your family in 2014!
Pretty iced down there??
Outdoorsguy
Dogs chasing deer? Really? Come on people, how often does it happen and how many “domestic” dogs really have the ambition to do so? Not many! You guys should be worrying about more pressing matters like the state of your Ottawa Senators! Now that’s problem that requires your attention.
If a domestic dog does catch a deer chances are the deer is hurt and on its way out anyway! A healthy deer can easily out run, jump any dog! Go Sens Go!
With a moniker like ‘The real outdoors guy’ I would have expected someone a bit better informed….
Outdoorsguy
Hahaha
I agree with him that his Sens suck
The rest of his crappy post sucks too.
He should be
The Real Outdoors Clown!
Anyway
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to Jeff and all the regular posters on here
have a good one.
Hey Iggy, same to you!
Hope you and your family have a terrific Christmas!!
Outdoorsguy
Boy, not hard to tell the rut is over…all my deer have now moved to their wintering area. I have a trailcam pic up there of my big boy – Garfield, allowing another 8 point buck to feed right beside him without pushing him away. A month ago he would have torn him a new arse..hehe
It is all about survival this time of year…I have some terrific trailcam images from this fall and early winter of the 5 bucks in my area, which I plan to compile into a blog post.
Outdoorsguy
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year… thank you Jeff for providing great write-ups of the great outdoors throughout the year.
People Saving Animals
http://www.flixxy.com/people-saving-animals.htm
Thanks Alain, same to you..and thanks for the link!
Outdoorsguy
Lots of room in this world for all of God’s creatures…next to the mashed potatoes!
@The real outdoors guy, at least you have a good sense of humour..have a good one!
Outdoorsguy
Loved the video Alain D.
Merry Christmas to everyone on the Outdoors Guy blog, Thank you Jeff for another great year of outdoor stories.
Thanks Hunting mom, and thank YOU very much for contributing regularly….wishing you and your family a very Merry Christmas!!
Outdoorsguy
yes . my mom and brothers dont have any power and may not till after christmas.. they are all at my house since sunday. no no dont feel sad, i am cooking dinner and then off to the usa for a week of fishing and hunting they can stay at my place ,but with my luck i will get snowed in or car problems. ALL the best you and your family and to all the outdoor followers , MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR
Hey Chess, lucky they have you to put them up for a few days. I remember the ice-storm of 1998, had my inlaws from Montreal staying with us for a few days..boy do I remember that..hehe
Have fun down south..catch a few stripers(with one ‘p’) and maybe a deer or two also!
Outdoorsguy
My buddie already has 2 in the freezer for me … they do not wait to process there deer . if i shoot more than two (if i want its like a shooting gallary down there ) i can get more processed ) i just need to replace his two and i will have no problem doing that .. that should be the first night
Merry Christmas and continued success to all! Stay safe!
Who can name that mystery animal:
http://blogs.canoe.ca/outdoorsguy/strange/name-that-mystery-christmas-animal/
Outdoorsguy
Dogs are the most destructive animals on earth (other than man). Unlike the wolves from which they were created, dogs chase wildlife and livestock animals purely for the fun of it and will literally rip them limb-from-limb while they are alive and all the while, they’re wagging their filthy tails and having a grand old time. Dogs don’t kill because they’re hungry, they kill for pleasure. Dogs are the sadistic serial killers of the animal kingdom. Whenever I see a dog on my property, I shoot it.
Stop feeding the deer for starters. You can’t expect to bait them into a civilized area and then expect to blame the dog owners and/or the dogs when they chase the deer. Realize that you are creating the problem when you feed wild animals like that. Yes you want to see the deer up close…so do the dogs.
Secondly, in many places in Ontario it’s legal to use dogs for this purpose. Obviously not legal for out of season deer, and I don’t support that aspect of it.
@SamD: Your post is hypocritical. First you accuse the dogs of being serial killers, but then you say that you have a habit of shooting dogs on your property? I would wonder about you long before any dog.