Both the Ontario and Quebec Ministry of Natural Resources have, in recent years, been moving towards making their offices modern and ‘paperless’.
But at what cost?
Sure, having all the rules and regulations available online is a real benefit to those with access to a computer. I’m not sure what I would do without the internet and all my online tools, but what about someone like my father who’s never owned a PC in his life? What about anyone without access to a computer or the Internet?
Back in the good ol days, you could purchase a deer or moose license and grab a copy of the regs on your way out. But not anymore!
Guys like my hunting pal Ken for example who lives in Quebec’s, Laurentians without access to a computer. Last Fall, he purchased his deer permit at the local Depanneur, as he has for almost 35 years, but when he went to grab his copy of the 2012 Hunting Regulations they were nowhere to be seen!
After calling me and doing a bit of research, we discovered that the booklet is only available now on ‘special order’, and if he wanted one would have to call the 1 (800) which he did. The lady on the line explained that the information he wanted was ‘readily available online’, until Ken explained to her that he doesn’t own a computer.
Over on this side of the river it is much the same thing.
Avid angler Herman Baguss just wanted a copy of the Fishing Regs for 2013 and was told, when he when called the MNR, that they no longer handing them out.
When he asked someone in the know, he was ordered to go online “Download them and print them”..which thoroughly ticked him off!
I’m sure Herman is not the first person to be ticked-off at our government’s move towards a paperless office.
It would seem that both Quebec and Ontario are moving in that direction.
Call me oldschool, but what is really wrong with paper anyway? I suppose it all boils down to dollars and cents. Sadly, with an aging Canadian population, more and more of our older hunting and fishing enthusiasts will start to feel abandoned in a world of high tech. I can’t blame them really.
Hey, can we not just print a token amount of hunting and fishing regs for those who can’t get them online, and make them available?
As much as I enjoy all the modern high tech conveniences, there is still something special about holding a ‘hard copy’ booklet in my hand, but I suppose that luxury has gone by way of the dodo bird.
Outdoorsguy
Let me be the first to pipe in here….and with all due respect Jeff I cannot agree with you….
Quote “Call me oldschool, but what is really wrong with paper anyway?”
have you ever seen a clear cut ?
have you ever lived near a pulp mill ?
Having said that, I think that the ministries involved in this new approach to a paperless society have an obligation to notify those affected and offer them clear easy instructions on how to attend their local government office and have a copy printed for them. The rest of us will survive as will generations to follow and our natural resources will be preserved.
On another note, Jeff, how do you keep in contact with The Outdoor Guy fans who insist on a paper copy ?
OK Trapper, before you go all Tree Hugger on me (literally) I am not suggesting that we continue printing paper aimlessly to the detriment of our environment..I’m just saying that a few copies of the booklet made available to those who don’t have access to a PC, or live in isolated areas, isn’t too much to ask.
And btw….I live across the river from a pulp mill..and have seen many clear cuts over the years.
Outdoorsguy
it’s not only the paper issue as well i find it quite stupid that could not make an adhesive to attach the small game or fishing licences to our outdoors card it makes it quite easy for the small little fluorescent piece of paper to be lost or misplaced why would they change what was working fine …… maybe money ????
Maybe I was just lucky but I had no problem picking up a copy of the 2013 fishing regs?
Was able to get a copy from Access Ontario and my local minnow dealer?
On another note, I boiled 70 gallons of sap last weekend made just under 2 gallons of
very light syrup. I’m expecting a big boil this weekend.
wow imacdon, that’s great news! Reminds me that I need to get my annual maple syrup post out there! Btw, do mean light in colour? Thats amazing to get such quality syrup early on like that. We always got dark or amber in early season.
My Dad isn’t back from down south yet..guess he’ll miss the first part of the season this year.
Oudoorsguy
Yes, light in colour. Put the buckets out Feb 23 it started to run on the 24th. We get the light early
and the dark latter in the season.
Jeff, I knew that would get a rise out of ya….hehe.
Imacdon that’s great news. We tapped our trees yesterday and hope to start boiling this week. We’re shooting for 1000 litres of sap this year.
1000 litres, Trapper? Come on man..I’m oldschool remember.
What is that, about 250 gallons..hehe?
Outdoorsguy
Trapper said “Jeff, I knew that would get a rise out of ya….hehe.”
Ahh, we can never acuse you of being a ‘yes man’ that’s for sure!
Outdoorsguy
Want a good challenge?
(at least in my attempts) it’s right near impossible to get anything that resembles crown land /public land map/atlas in Quebec like there is in Ontario.
so far my best attempts have led me to a daily subscription site that seems to be built to make navigating it as difficult as possible!
Hey Mario, if you’re speaking of access to printed Topographic maps, I may be able to help you there.
Last time I went looking for a QC topo map (these maps appear to be under Federal jurisdiction btw)my research led me to a private company here in Ottawa where you can order these maps at a cost of around $10 apiece. I believe it was controlled by Natural Resources Canada at one time..but they may be subcontracting the topo map thing out to a private firm.
Let me do some research into that for you…
Outdoorsguy
I agree with going paperless but you know they will piss those savings away on administration rather than programs. Besides, 90% of the regs are useless for most readers anyway but I suppose it never made sense to print by zone. Most people at least know someone with a computer so it’s not that bad. Speaking of clear cut, too bad the grocery and hardware stores wouldn’t go paperless, now there is some serious paper every week.
That would be very appreciated,
This will be my second year hunting on the QC side, so anything that’ll give me a good idea of the area will go a long way as far as familliarity goes
though I am lucky enough to have access to a decent plot of land, it is always nice to know private vs. public lands… especially in a new locale.
Thanks Jeff!
Mario, I’m sorry but a general topo map will not differentiate between private and crown land. To find out that information, you would probably need to approach the municipality in question…where your parcel is located
If you would like to send me a pm, I may actually have the inside track on the area you’re planning to hunt.
Outdoorsguy
It’s a good thing they are going paperless as all you were ever getting was a SUMMARY not regulations as like most laws it is up to officers interpretation of the laws each officer is different . If you want to know something pick up the darn phone and call and ask, It has never been against the law to ask questions ! Call your district you are hunting in and ask for the enforcement supervisor he is the one that interprets the law .
No matter to me, I can look it up, but there is a whole generation of people still hunting and fishing that should have continued easy access to the seasons and the regulations, but once again the government is showing us that they couldn’t care less how they serve the public
QUOTE IGGY “once again the government is showing us that they couldn’t care less how they serve the public” END QUOTE
True that Igs, it’s pathetic how the MNR has become such a “hands off” organization. Every MNR office in the land is locked up tight and anyone with business inside has to make an appointment. Some of the small town offices have resisted this new way change but eventually they will all be the same. The OPP detachments are the same way as well.
Trapper, you can’t tell me this ‘closing themselves off to the public’ is all about money though. Unless they’re just trying to conceal the fact that very few actual people work inside these buildings these days?
I suppose the sad downside to high-tech advancements in the QC & ON Ministry offices..like going paperless and using more online resources…is that fewer bodies are now required to keep things going. Hey…just look at the newspaper industry, the Internet is killing it!
Perhaps it will be cyclical just like how ‘video killed the radio star’ back in the 1980’s..music videos were huge on television and were running radio stations off the map at the time. Today radio is thriving and who really watches music videos on tv anymore? They all watch vids online now….hmm, where was I going with all this again??
Outdoorsguy
RIP Stompin’ Tom – he was a true Canadian Legend!
Going paperless…
For decades the Regs have been put out at sports shops, fishing shows, basically on display for anyone to pick up as many copies as they wanted… Maybe that was a bit extravagant…
I still think that they should be available to people who ask for them… Hell, I’d even pay a couple bucks if I had to…
One of our local license issuers told me that when they shipped her one box of regs, she put them out like usual. Of course they disappeared in short order – so maybe a few people got some copies.
When she called the MNR to get more that’s when they told her “you’ve received your quota…”. (She usually gets 8 or 10 boxes), that was the first she heard of it. She says if she would have known, she would have kept them back for people who actually requested them.
I called Service Ontario in Kemptville. I was told they’re all out of them – “Download and print…”
There’s enough government paper being generated that could be abolished or converted to “paperless” that eliminating the Regs under the premise of “saving trees” is only Government rhetoric.
Another bureaucratic brain fart…
Herman Baguss
QUOTE JEFF “Trapper, you can’t tell me this ‘closing themselves off to the public’ is all about money though. Unless they’re just trying to conceal the fact that very few actual people work inside these buildings these days?” END QUOTE.
I’m not sure whether these Provincial organizations are closing the doors to save money or to reduce some of the workload caused by frivilous enquiries from clients of CMHA or radical anarchists like PETA and PCAP etc….. I can tell you first hand though that the lad sitting at the desk in the “office of the first impressions” has their fair share of the workload.
It all starts with the dreaded automated telephone system then progresses from there.
On the topic of Stompin Tom:
There’s a celebration of life scheduled for Stompin Tom. Wed March 13th 7:00 pm at the Memorial Centre in Peterborough Ontario, I for one will be making the trek…
Trap, any idea where he was living in town? I had no idea he was even in Peterborough..figured he was still down east.
Good for you btw for attending that Memorial service.
Outdoorsguy
Jeff, I see one of your hunting grounds has come up for sale. Kenauk reserve.
It’s going for a measily 81? All you have to do is find about 8000 outdoors people to invest?
Should be easy to find them on this site……
OK imacdon, where the heck did you hear that? Kenauk is owned by Fairmont Hotels..which was purchased a couple of years back by an Asian conglomerate.
Why would they sell off one small chunk? Kenauk was once privately owned..and called the Seigneurie Club at the time..until being purchased by Fairmont Hotels.
Outdoorsguy
imacdon, I did find the news..thanks for the heads-up..a Blog post to come.
Man..first Stompin’ Tom and now this
Outdoorsguy
They close offices because they don’t want people to see how many are in there offices doing f— all I go quite regularly and see multiple wardens sitting at desk waiting for the tips line to ring . They all complain can’t do there job as they have no money ,
Fairmont Kenauk news:
http://blogs.canoe.ca/outdoorsguy/fishing/fairmont-kenauk-up-for-sale/
Outdoorsguy
Jeff, on the Topic of Stompin Tom,
They never did actually say he lived in Peterborough now, only that he lived in Ontario. I don’t know whether he did or not. HIs promoter is from Peterborough. Also Stompin Tom got his name in a bar in Peterborough.
Trapper, I heard it was a bar up in Timmins where he got his start. At least that’s the story I heard. He was up there drinking and couldn’t pay his bar tab, so the owner made him sing on stage to cover the bill. Then they like him so much, they hired him on for a year or something to play regularly.
I kick myself for not going to see him a few years back across the river here, at the Shawville QC Fair. So many people came-out to that show it actually closed down the Hwy 148! Story is, Stompin’ Tom had a higher turn-out at that show then the Rolling Stones did at Landsdowne Park that same summer!
Ahh….sad to think he’s gone.
Another neat story I heard once: Stompin’ Tom had a ‘Rider’ included for all his concert venues, as many artists do, and his had but two items he required back stage.
1) A 24 of Moosehead
2) A Big black ashtray
Outdoorsguy
Please note my new email address: [email protected]
Outdoorsguy