(These graphic images show the extent of injuries sustained by Christa Fraser’s horse)
But what really attacked Christa Fraser’s horse? Was it a coyote as reported initially?
Can only be one thing in my opinion….and it aint a Sasquatch!
According to Fraser, who stated “I don’t believe that one lone coyote would get between two horses and attack one of them in broad daylight”, and goes-on to explain that it doesn’t fit with a coyote’s hunting pattern and the wound is not consistent at all with a coyote attack.
The National Capital Commission first sent out a release Sunday advising the public to be on the lookout for a coyote spotted in the vicinity then Tuesday, they updated details of their advisory asking residents and farmers to increase safety measures for livestock and pets.
Trails were closed and traps were installed and NCC will continue to monitor the area.
But how big were said traps??
Ms. Fraser contacted the Sun to explain she found one of her two horses “severely wounded” in the paddock, 50-feet from her front door and wanted to warn her neighbors to be on the lookout for the dangerous animal.
Even Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources Dr. Brent Patterson studied the photos of the horse’s wounds and ruled out coyotes, bobcats or cougars as the culprits but suggested perhaps a ‘foreign animal’ could be to blame.
Patterson explained that “There are strange exotic domestic animals in large areas like Ottawa” and that they do tend to escape from time to time.
So, what really attacked Ms. Fraser’s horse?
Well, my first thought would have been a cougar, but Dr Patterson ruled that out, so the only reasonable explanation is the Sasquatch from the Patterson-Gimlin film footage!
Hmmm…Dr. Patterson…Patterson-Gimlin, that is a little ironic, don’t you think??
Anyone own a Big Foot trap?
Outdoorsguy
Note: Read ahead to comments, as there has been developments in this case (including an interview I did with Christa Fraser) since my initial post went live.
The following image, taken 2011 in Michigan, shows a radio-collared and ear-tagged cougar. According to Michigan DNR, the closest state with radio-collaring program is North Dakota, of course this case may have originated from Canada as well.
It does demonstrate how cougars can travel very long distances from the home range.
So why won’t anyone say what the tracks were of, or did it fly in.
Come on, send that reporter back out there with a swift kick in the derrière
The part that gets me Iggy is that a cougar has been ruled out, but other ‘exotic animals’ have not?
Tell me any expert in the world who can differentiate between bite marks left by a leopard, cheetah or cougar?
And yes, what about the tracks, if any? Im sure Sasquatch tracks would be easy to see in the fresh snow!
Outdoorsguy
Definitely sounds like a sasquatch encounter. Tough winter for them so far with deer populations down and what not.
johan, like Iggy said tho..no prints left behind.
Air-lifted sasquatch?
Outdoorsguy
Lol
Send that junior reporter back out and get some answers
From an earlier post
How is Big Jim Mc Laughlin doing.
I know for a while he was very sick.
He has been Ottawa ‘ s celebrity fisherman for a very long time
The NCC says the nearby tracks ‘resemble’ Coyote tracks.
He didn’t say there weren’t any, just that no one reported any. If nothing walked in it had to be from the air. Severely wounded is open for interpretation as well. owl on steroids bit off more than it could chew?
there ya go johan, NCC said nearby tracks resemble that of a coyote…
Tks Treebulb..the first hard evidence I’ve seen yet!
Outdoorsguy
But somehow the bite marks were not consistent with that of a coyote?
Outdoorsguy
Pictures of tracks and wounds would help us experts!
I regularly walk my dog at various places in the Green Belt. I see coyotes, coyote scat and canine tracks that are not accompanied by human tracks almost every time I go out.
I very rarely see unaccompanied domestic dogs.
I have seen cougar tracks in the more remote sections of Gatineau Park but never on the Ontario side of the river.
I have never even heard of a large foreign predator loose in the Ottawa area.
I guess it must have been a foreign predator
Dave, I gather you’ve never read any of my cougar articles?? I have rec’d easily 50 cougar sighting reports in eastern ON alone, (stone’s throw from Ottawa) in the past 6 months! There is a cougar hotspot in the Kemptville-area actually…so all these sightings do seem to point to existence of these big cats in our region.
Now, it’s the ‘source’ of these cougars which remains to be seen…go out there and find me one, dammit!
Outdoorsguy
This story is strange. I would be interested to see the extent of the horse’s injuries. I have seen the Hunt Club coyote and he’s a scruffy, skinny little guy. I wouldn’t think he would have the ability to “severely” injure a horse.
Hunting Mom, you’re absolutely right..the whole thing is strange and rather confusing!
My feeling is that conflicting details in this case may have resulted in the whole thing getting blown out of proportion.
From the beginning, they seemed intent on ‘dispelling the myth’ that coyotes are, in fact, predators and will occasionally attack livestock.
When an expert comes forward to say the bite marks on the horse are NOT consistent with that of a coyote, wolf or cougar BUT could be consistent with some other ‘exotic’ animal (which may or may not have escaped) the ‘wtf buzzer’ went off in my head!
WHAT????
Ok, so you’ve ruled out a possible cougar attack…but instead say it could have been a leopard? Or even a cheetah?
Come on man…something’s not right here…hence my post about the attacker being a Sasquatch, because at this point my theory would be as plausible as any other theory out there.
At this point, the only animal tracks seen in the area are likely from coyotes..and for one lone skinny yote to attack a horse in broad daylight, perhaps it was sick.or just really hungry!
OMG folks..we have a coyote problem in this region….WHO KNEW!!!!!!
Outdoorsguy
Would the location of the bite marks provide as much information that the actual marks themselves? I have a hard time believing a coyote would tackle a horse, hungry, sick or otherwise but I wouldn’t bet money on it.
they haven’t said nor has anyone seen or reported on the traps set out by the NCC…what are the odds of maybe a bear?
mike, although black bears are known to emerge briefly (from time to time) during their long winter’s sleep..I’ve never heard one having enough energy (at this time of year) to attack a horse.
Outdoorsguy
Guys, I have the answer. I saw a UFO hover behind the horse and some strange alien looking dude popped out of the side of his spacecraft. He looked at the horse and decided to take a bite out of it to see if he could use it for dinner. Apparently it didn’t pass the taste test because he soon flew off to parts unknown. If you don’t believe me, you can ask the Leprechaun I was sitting with in the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow…
Ha..come on sureshot, you took it too far…no one would ever believe that!
Outdoorsguy
In a thread posted before the news came out, a cousin of the lady who owns the horse said they tried to find tracks, but the blowing snow had covered everything.
Sure is interesting wondering did that to this poor horse.
I wondered what would happen if they showed the horse photos of a cougar or samsquatch 🙂 Would it freak it out?
You never know.
Cheers!
If the wounds to the horse were on his under belly, would that be an indication that it was a coyote or wolf?
Ok FOlks, I was in contact this am with Christa, the owner of the horse in question..
Stay tuned for more FIRST HAND information in this case!
Outdoorsguy
Take note that Question #2 is now out in the Ottawa Boat & Sportsmen’s Show ticket giveaway contest:
http://blogs.canoe.ca/outdoorsguy/outdoors/ottawa-boat-sportsmens-show-trivia-for-free-tickets/
Outdoorsguy
@ Hunting Mom – coyotes and wolves will nip at the hind end hoping to cause blood loss then the eventual fall of the animal which, at that point, they go for the belly. They’re tactical. If they were to try underneath, they stand a good chance of getting kicked or stepped on.
An NCC Update is expected this afternoon, and Christa has asked for me to hold-off on publicizing anything further on this incident until after the NCC news release.
I will honour her wishes and wait (with baited breath) in hopes that the truth will finally come out in this case!
Outdoorsguy
OK Folks, horse owner Christa Fraser has allowed me to share some details of our conversation this am, prior to the NCC News release.
I asked her a few questions regarding an injury sustained by one of her two horses which was recently attacked. Take note that both horses were sharing the same paddock and the attack occurred in broad daylight! (horse #2 could not be reached for comment)
Was this a coyote attack?
“I can tell you this was not a coyote. It was ruled out by an expert at the MNR and it was also determined by the veterinarian that tended to my horse and their team that the wounds inflicted were done with claws.”
What are the nature of your horse’s injuries?
“This was not a bite. The injuries were all on the top, back and inside lower part of the front left leg.”
How do you think the attack may have occurred?
“My horse is double blanketed, Covered from hind to ears. The wound would indicate to me that my horse reared and an animal grabbed his leg. Or perhaps took a swipe while the horse was running.”
For now, at Christa’s request, these are the only responses I am making available to the public.
Take away from this information what you will….to me it speaks volumes!
Outdoorsguy
Cougar…
Don’t know what to make of it except I doubt it was a Fisher
They do have claws but a Fisher would never tackle an animal as big as a horse.
Christa just sent me some images which I’m hoping to have up soon!
My thoughts too Iggy, dont think a fisher would attempt such an attack, and a horse of this size would kick it off pretty quickly.
You’ll be amazed when you see the injuries. Never seen a fisher with claws capable of inflicting such huge claw marks!
Outdoorsguy
See? That definitely rules out wolves or coyotes. Sasquatch claws aren’t used for tearing or holding prey, so I think they are off the hook too. Has to be a big cat.
The MNR will never admit to there being a cougar in the area, they must think that publishing that kind of information will just rile-up the public, after all this isn’t Africa, we shouldn’t have to share what we consider our property with wild animals, we pay property taxes meaning stay the heck off you uncouth wild hairy beasts. If I ever see one of either a coyote, wolf, cougar, lion, tiger, liger, tigon, panther, jaguar, puma, cheetah or even a serval or civet cat I am calling my MPP; this is Ontario for heaven’s sake let the government handle this kind of thing…(tongue is planted firmly in cheek while writing this post) Won’t somebody PLEASE think of the children (said in my best Mrs. Rev. Lovejoy voice).
So nobody finds it a coincidence that on the same day this poor horse was attacked, John Baird decided to resign? Hasn’t anybody seen the movie Silver Bullet?
I just added two images (above) showing the injuries sustained to Christa’s horse. The long deep claw marks are clearly visible in the first photo which, in my opinion, were made by a cougar. The origin of the cougar in question is unknown..be it an escaped captive animal or one of potentially dozens of wild cougars now roaming the province of Ontario.
Call me crazy, but I have the nearly 100 reported cougar sightings in the bank and more than enough ‘reasonable doubt’ that these large cats do roam many areas of this province. FAR too many reports to ALL be escaped pets!
Now, where is the cougar that attacked Christa’s horse? Could be on the other side of the 401 by now, or holding up in some secretive cougar lair in the wilds of eastern ON.
One thing for sure…this will NOT be the last cougar attack we will witness! If a western cougar can travel over 3000 miles from the Black Hills of Dakota to end-up on a Connecticut hwy, then one(or more) could just as easily travel from western Canada to Ontario!
As one reader suggested earlier this week; “Time to put on the cougar glasses!!”
Outdoorsguy
My guess judging from the photos would a cougar as well… Or at least some other big cat…
We could, however, refer this issue to one of the world’s foremost experts.
I think Bubbles would be able to settle the “Samsquanch” question… :-))))
Christa needs to contact somebody in Ottawa and have them send out thier
livestock evaluator . It’s done in the country all the time. Mind you the animal is usually dead,
But these people see enough that they should be able to make some sort of decision.
imacdon, she had a livestock Vet treat the horse who also felt the injuries were consistent with large claw marks and not bite marks!
Outdoorsguy
Well the Hunt Club coyote certainly couldn’t have done that much damage. I hope the horse will be OK. I am sure Christa must be nervous that whatever it is will come back.
I note that the NCC has lifted the warnings and opened the trails. The Ottawa Wildlife Centre is very critical of how the NCC handled this. They think the NCC should be “educating” the public about coyotes as opposed to issuing warnings.
I suppose “educating” means just putting up with the )$&@ things and locking up your pets.
Hunting mom, I agree that many here in this region need to be educated more about coyotes, and at least there are biologists and researchers in NA looking into the Urban Yote problem.
What we have here though is something altogether different! I guess we may need to turn to Western ranchers for the answer on how to deal with this particular predator, since no one really seems to know how to deal with cougars in this part of the world.
Deal with them? Heck, we’re not even at the stage of accepting the fact they’re here!!!
Outdoorsguy
phew…glad im not the only one who thinks this was a cougar ..
some interesting reading here after you click on the link go to the rosattes report in pdf.
http://cougarrewilding.org/CougarNews/?p=5301
matt, Dr Rick Rosatte is probably Canada’s foremost authority on cougars…I actually consulted with him on an article I wrote a two summers ago. If anyone should head-up an Ontario cougar task force, it is this man!
I would be interested to know what Dr. Rosatte says about this horse attack in Barhaven, maybe I should ask him. Oh, and don’t worry matt…I’m sure there are many now who believe this was a cougar attack.
It may be worth mentioning, for those who may recall but back in 2001 I wrote a piece for Ontario Out of Doors Mag (OOD) about a cougar attack in Monkland, near Cornwall. A man had let his dog out one evening and was jumped and bitten in the hand by a very large cat. I interviewed the guy over the phone, and he was convinced it was a cougar. Experts came in the following day and found large cat tracks on his property..as well they determined that the bite, which left eight tooth markings, was consistent with the jaw structure of a cougar.
Outdoorsguy
So I guess I can put my tinfoil hat away then ….lol very interesting stuff none the less ,heres hoping they find some class 1 evidence in those traps and christa and her family (horses included) can breath a sigh of relief !
Lets just say, catching a cougar in a culvert trap wont be quite as easy as catching a bear! (Unless its an escaped captive cougar, I suppose.)
Oh and Matt, maybe keep that tinfoil hat available just in case..hehe
Outdoorsguy
Cougar found hiding in North Kanata barn…hmmmm coincidence I suppose:
http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/02/08/farmer-shocked-to-see-cougar
Outdoorsguy
Maybe not a Fisher but how about a wolverine ?
Farmer SHOCKED (??) to see cougar…
WTF?? Would it surprise him to see a wino downtown??
I’m guessing the Kanata counsellor will change her mind about the pack of stray dogs now that there’s a cougar on her turf.
Staples1, the truth of the matter is…there’s a good chance the cougar spotted in the hayloft isn’t even the same animal that tackled Christa Fraser’s horse!
That’s what happens when you leave an issue like cougars in Ontario unchecked for so long. Hard to believe it was over 14 YEARS AGO now that I interviewed that teen bitten by a cougar near Cornwall!!!
And what has really changed since that time? Not a bloody thing!!
Outdoorsguy
“..unchecked for so long…” Jeez Outdoorsguy, relax! 😉
What should we have done over the last 14 years to keep them in check?
Cougars aren’t exactly overrunning our forests and threatening our way of life at this point. I am not sure about you but I have yet to see a confirmed picture of one that wasn’t someone’s house pet and that’s crazy considering the number of phones with cameras. Not to mention the number of game cameras sitting on prime wildlife runways in every bush where people hunt. Sure there are likely a few cougars out there but it might be a bit early to declare an epidemic. I hope they eat raccoons, now there’s a problem.
johan..by unchecked I simply mean no research nor any substantial investigation has ever been carried out.. and there are still lots of people around who don’t realize Cougars are not only found in Gatineau bars…
And come on man, nothing eats raccoon you know that!
Outdoorsguy
This is certainly a strange turn of events — a sighting so soon after the horse incident.
Why do you suppose the cougar, assuming that it was the same one that attacked the horse, is coming so close to humans?
Outdoors Guy
I just read in the Ottawa Citizen that Brent Patterson of the MNR is now saying that the injuries to the horse were more likely caused by entanglement with wire. It keeps getting stranger by the minute.
Oh geez, I heard he was on the radio today spinning his theory. Lets just say, when a livestock Vet is telling you the injuries are the result of large claw marks, then the injuries are the result of large claw marks.
Where is the Incredible Dr Pol when you need him..perhaps we should send the horse down to Central Michigan, Dr Pol will figure it out!
Hunting mom, you’re right…this has gone from the ridiculous to the sublime!
Outdoorsguy
Brent pattersons came to this conclusion via email after viewing a few of the pictures not all of them , I’d love to ask him why then if they don’t believe there was another animal involved in this attack did they waste taxpayer dollars setting up traps and close public trails ??? was he in contact with the other farmer who reported the cougar in his barn ? Why weren’t they there collecting evidence ? Exactly what is it they do?? Lol I’d love to hear Mr McEwan ‘s response he received from the mnr… you nailed it jeff the reaction from the mnr is turning this into a very strange situation to say the least ..
OK folks, If you haven’t already heard, Christa Fraser has gone public with what one might refer to as “the rest of the story”
There was a portion of my interview with Christa she has reservations about releasing since these details were not included at time the horse attack story made press.
Now that she’s come forward with the WHOLE story, I’ve been given permission to release the remaining bit – some extremely important details to this story, to say the least.
A Preface, if you will…
In late December, about 6 weeks prior to the attack on her horse, Christa had an encounter with an animal on her property:
“I couldn’t believe my eyes at the time but I’m certain of what it was.” she recalls
“It’s speed was incredible and it jumped from full speed over a ditch and over the train tracks in one fluid motion!” she added
“It’s (long) tail was the identifying feature that confirmed it for me.”
Christa had chased a cougar off the very same property where her horse was attacked just 6 weeks later..and then guess what she did?
She reported the cougar sighting!!!
“I notified a conservation officer who came and did a 15 minute search and left with no report.”
By the time, the press firestorm had erupted the petrified horse owner felt silly about confessing what had occurred on her property 6 weeks earlier.
All the while, naysayers, the NCC and the bulk of public opinion was in the ‘mindset’ that a coyote had attacked her horse. Or perhaps it was just barbwire?
But Christa herself knew the truth..she always knew the truth!
Not only had A COUGAR ATTACKED HER HORSE…CHRISTA HAD, IN ALL LIKELIHOOD, SEEN THE CULPRIT ON HER PROPERTY SIX WEEKS EARLIER!!
For more on this story, I will be appearing tomorrow 11:45 AM on 1310 NEWS with Ed Hand!!
Outdoorsguy
As if I wasn’t confused enough. Now apparently the MNR knew all along that there was a very good chance it was a cougar. Why on earth would Dr. Patterson make those statements, knowing full well what Christa had seen a few weeks earlier? Ugh..
Looks to me the horse had his leg over a gate or a fence. I saw lots of these cuts on horses when I was a Farrier. Valuer investigation literature says horses are prone to cause self inflcted injuries that may be confused with claw marks.
As Farrier I saw lots of horses legs like this from putting a leg over a gate or through a fence.Horses are notorious for selfinflicted injuries.I am retired know and one of my side jobs is a livestock valuer.There should be sign of a struggle if that was caused by a predator.If a horse was fighting for his life he might be pushed over a fence or over a stall wall. There should be claw marks in the blanket if he had one on. Predators do not usually attack horses legs it is too high risk and nonlethal.
Thank you so much Jeff for taking the time and so much effort to advocate for an equal and open perspective.
I am truly grateful for the conversations we’ve had together and the ones you’ve had on my behalf.
I would like to update anyone that’s wondering that CeeJay was seen tonight by the vet as a follow up and his progress exceeded their expectations. Swelling is down, skin is healing, no signs of aggressive infection, he’s eating well and moving well.
I just wanted to personally thank everyone who has expressed concern for him and wished him well.
There are a lot of mean people out there and I could have never expected some of the comments we’ve received. I’m grateful for the support I’ve received from you Jeff, and the participants in this group, and I wanted to thank you, and let you know that CeeJay will recover in a matter of time and hopefully, life will resume as it was: With my horses safely in their paddock and the wild animals on the fringes of our property keeping to themselves .
I wish you all the best!!
Christa
Hey Christa, it is my pleasure! It is our pleasure!!
Feel free to the visit theOutdoors Guy Blog anytime….you will find the most educated and informed folks in the outdoor community stop-by here on a regular basis. We have no hidden agenda or policy to uphold, for us it is about conservation, fish and wildlife management and ensuring the best possible future for our hunting, fishing and trapping heritage. Oh, and we share a common passion for these outdoor pursuits.
Check out the outdoors guy in Bounder magazine too…a great local publication with lots of interesting material. I also have a monthly ‘outdoors guy’ column in the Pembroke Daily Observer.
Oh, and I’m glad to hear that CeeJay is doing well!
Best regards,
Outdoorsguy
So Rosmiko, if your such an expert, what was it that Christa saw, Samsquanch? I suspect
The MNR and the NCC are two bodies of government that are not believable, actually, I suspect are in cahoots caught in a lie. Neither is friendly to the public, neither can be believed
EVER.
Rosmiko said; “Predators do not usually attack horses legs it is too high risk and nonlethal”
Ok, so why then do coyotes and wolves target the back legs of their prey(deer, moose etc) 90% of the time? Have you ever seen a deer that survived a coyote/wolf attack? The back legs are all torn up, as this is the FIRST place they target since an immobile prey is a lot easier to kill!
So therefore you’re saying a predator that normally attacks prey from the back legs in case of a moose or deer, would change their approach should that prey be a horse? Because it is too high risk?
Sorry sir, that one aint adding-up!
Outdoorsguy
Thanks for the Bog Jeff I also share the interest. Sorry if I came across as an expert. I am not.But I do have experience with horses. I was a Farrier for 26 years.As valuer I have seen numerous livestock killed and injured by predators. Not all but most kills done with a lethal bite ( suffocation) A cougars objective is to feed himself and they need to kill approximently every 10 days. A horse in a paddock would be an easy meal.I am sorry but if it where a cougar the horse would have been dead. As for MNR not being believable.Remember they live in our community as well. As Farrier I worked for a dozen different MNR employees. Three of which were Conservation Officers. As one told me, do you think I would leave my horses out or let my kids ride the trails if I thought there where cougars around.
Rosmiko, I assumed if you were a Farrier for so many years that you were indeed an expert, an expert at shoeing horses. Undoubtedly you have more ‘horse’ experience than I do.
I also do not claim to be an expert in horse attacks..I’d call myself more a student of the outdoors than anything. I do; however, have a strong background in fish & wildlife biology and quite a few years observing, enjoying, writing-about and documenting the Great Outdoors.
The part that threw me for a loop was your statement that ‘claw marks on the legs NOT being indicative of a predator attack.’ Also the fact that a livestock vet working on CeeJay came to the conclusion they were claw marks.
Outdoorsguy
I sympathize with you Christa and I hope CeeJay makes a complete recovery.
‘Rosmiko’ is a retired vet with a ton of experience and who has offered an opinion based on that experience. We would be ignorant to discount it, and certainly don’t need to form a lynch mob if you don’t agree with what he says. The more input the better!
Having seen more hard-on-fence horses than cougars I think fence injuries make about as much sense as a cougar attack on the lower leg. NO expert here, but I also have to think it wouldn’t be considered normal behavior for those predators. (note I said normal behavior, meaning for a wild feline predator, as opposed to someone’s escaped pet)
Watch any house cat and they always use two, and sometimes all four paws, each equipped with sharp, hooked, claws meant to grab and hold fast anything they want to kill. Why do you think they sharpen them all the time? Realistically, should there not be more gashes considering 4 sets or sharp claws and jaws made to crush and kill? I am glad there wasn’t of course, but if it was a cougar, maybe it was someone’s pet and it’s just not that efficient at killing it’s own dinner? If so, I certainly wouldn’t expect it to grab a horse by the leg again.
Let’s be realistic in that you absolutely can’t compare the way feline and canine predators bring down their prey. Coyotes go for the legs because they have to; they don’t have claws to hang on to a deer to kill it so they need to bring it down first. What’s the best way to do that; take out it’s legs or chase it out onto ice? Coyotes are family units, cats are solitary hunters, totally different hunting and killing style.
Johan, sorry you’re saying Rosmiko was a vet? I totally missed that and if so, I apologize. I got that he was a farrier..or shoeing expert, but I could be wrong.
As far as ‘other circumstances’ surrounding the attack..i.e. the fact that it was broad daylight, I will grant you that one. Certainly not the MO of any cougar attack/kill I’ve ever read about, which makes the ‘source’ of this cougar a bit suspect.
Since we don’t have the culpret in our midst to study DNA..we cannot accurately determine its source.(wild or escapee)
HOWEVER…one thing I can tell you from the only cougar ever captured/killed in Ontario since the 1800’s..the one in Muskoka’s summer 2013, which did turn out to be an escaped captive animal.
That specimen was sent to Guelph for analysis and first give-away that it was an escapee? That cat had been declawed!
Whatever attacked Christa’s horse certainly appeared to have a healthy set of claws intact. Would someone in Ontario own a big cat like as a pet WITHOUT declawing it?
I know I wouldn’t…
Outdoorsguy
My mistake, farrier. Doh.
Before I was a Farrier I also took Fish and Wildlife training.Jeff the reason I said claw marks on legs was not indicative to a cougar attack was because predation literature says cougars are ambush hunters Jumping on there preys back and biting the back of their head or neck .Lions and cheetahs run there prey down and sweep the legs out from under them. Coyotes lethal bite is the throat and if working in pairs the other one tears open the flank. Jeff I enjoy your articles I would agree we are all students of the outdoors
Rosmiko, I do believe you’re right about us all being students of the outdoors, although in this case any ‘textbook explanation’ on predator behaviour really doesn’t seem to fit.
What happened to Christa’s horse is anything but textbook.
Did the horse inflict its own injuries? In my opinion, no, but I wasn’t there and didn’t see firsthand what occurred. No one did.
So we must piece together what we have to work with.
The fact that a cougar was indeed spotted on Christa’s property; combined with the fact that a Veterinarian declared the injuries consistent with large claw marks, really does cast more than enough ‘reasonable doubt’, in my opinion.
If nothing else, it makes for an interesting topic of discussion during a typically slow time of year…hehe
Outdoorsguy
As a valuer most of the claims are for cattle and sheep. The only horse claim I did was 3 years ago. But the owners thought it had been chased into the fence by coyotes so it was hard to say what damage had been done by coyotes and what had been done by the horse struggling in the fence. I have never seen the hind legs of a moose/deer bite up by predators that was still alive. The Utterson cougar in 2012 was able to fatally maul a dog even with out front claws. That was very close to Guhas private zoo.They are very efficient predators Jeff Are you aware of the cougar shot in northern Quebec in May 1992 at Abitibi Lake.It had Chilean genetic markers Just some more of what I have found
Yes, the Utterson cougar still managed an effective attack on a domestic dog, even with being declawed. And I am aware of the big cat shot in Abitibi.
I suppose since the only ‘hard evidence’ cougars killed in this part of the world turned out to be ‘non-native animals, one would assume that ALL cougars roaming Central Canada fall into that category.
It is my contention that they do NOT…and the fact these two cougars were killed and later analyzed only stands to reason, since an escaped captive cougar would undoubtedly be more visible, and less wary than a wild one, and presumable easier to dispatch. The Utterson cougar in Muskoka’s certainly was!
If one reads (between the lines) on the West-East Migration theory, I believe this theory accounts for a large proportion of the big cats we have in ON. Given the fact that the closest known ‘breeding population’ of western cougars in Canada are found in Saskatchewan…a shorter distance from our border, than the big Connecticut cat (killed on a Hwy in 2011) had travelled from the Black Hills of North Dakota!
That migratory cat was 100% confirmed to have travelled more than 1500 miles!!
I also base my West-East Migration theory on ‘Several’ cougars which have been photographed in Ontario wearing visible radio collars.
The only radio telemetry programs involving cougars are in the far west! So how would a radio-collared cat end-up in Ontario?
Hmmmmmm…….
Outdoorsguy
rosmiko are you saying that every cougar attack is fatal then ??simply not true how would a human survive a cougar attack and not a 1200 lb horse then? as well just add there were only rope fences keeping the horse in.impossible to cause of that type of injury….
#3 Final question in my Ottawa Boat & Sportsmen’s SHOW Trivia Contest, is now out:
http://blogs.canoe.ca/outdoorsguy/outdoors/ottawa-boat-sportsmens-show-trivia-for-free-tickets/
Tks to all those who participated!!
Outdoorsguy
If it was a ‘rope fence’ then that’s an important fact to consider. Certainly wire or rail fences can cause some nasty injuries as I have seen myself with cattle. Yes the grass is always greener on the other side.
I just can’t get my head around why there is only be one set of marks, if they are claw marks. I would expect if a cat grabbed the horse’s leg, it would be with two paws at least no?
Where are all these pictures of Ontario cougars with collars? Wish I could get a few shots on my game cam.
johan, I just posted an image and caption above. This radio-collared cat image was taken in Michigan(Stone’s throw from ON border) but still demonstrates the West-East Migration theory.
Couldn’t find any ON images on short notice.
Outdoorsguy
Those are good points.In BC they are said to be the most efficient predator of wildlife and livestock. Most humans that survived an attack had the help of someone else. The Journal of Wildlife Management published Kyle Knopffs work on cougars predation in Alberta. It says “cougars are highly effective predators”
In 1999 I counted the captive cougars I could fined in central southern Ontario. I found 12 and I am sure their are more. I went to a private zoo that had 6 and was able to ask the owner questions.He said some that are raised by people do not turn out friendly and safe some are.Two were given to him , they are expensive to feed they need raw meat. Not all end up declawed and some males are castrated to reduce spraying. He said he had raised kittens and sold them.I hear people say the cougar they saw was the size of a lab dog. The one male cougar was the size of the female African lion three cages over.You have to wonder how many are in captivity around us.They are a beautiful cat
Outdoors guy, this has been a very interesting subject. I’ve learned a lot.
Yes Hunting mom, the presence of cougars is both exciting and intriguing. Hopefully one day we’ll have a better idea on the origin of these big cats.
Outdoorsguy
Winter fun in the Great Outdoors:
http://blogs.canoe.ca/outdoorsguy/outdoors/winter-fun-in-the-great-outdoors/
Outdoorsguy
As I stated in another one of your blogs Jeff, these pictures scream cougar predation. The laceration patterns are consistent to ones of a large cat. As well cougar tracks can be easily confused with the tracks of a domestic dog, or member of the canidae family, the only way you tell the difference, is by measuring the gait. Fact: A cougars average gait is 28-29″
Jeff, without a doubt, these lacerations were produced by a large cat species. MNR should be ashamed of themselves for calling this a coyote attack.
I could understand a rookie biologist confusing a cougar’s tracks with a member of the canidae genus; that being said, dogs leave bite marks, not lacerations, so the attack was, without a a resonable doubt, not caused by a coyote or a domestic dog.
As well, theses lacerations are too large and distinctive to have been caused by a lynx, bobcat or fisher.
So let’s recap. Theses wounds could not have been caused by: a domestic dog, wolf, coyote, bobcat, lynx or fisher. I also don’t believe these wounds could have been caused by a black bear either, because one would have bitten the horses leg then dragged it down.
That leaves two potential species native to Ontario. The eastern cougar and the wolverine. I don’t believe it could have been a wolverine because their historic range never once reached as far as south as Ottawa and because their diet generally consists of smaller mammals as well as carrion.
The lacerations though are disturbing consistent to ones left by a wolverine trying to climb its pretty.
The more I look at the horse’s wound, the more I want to know about its exact location and placement.
What leg, on the front or hine set, the exact distance from the wound to the ground and whether or not it was the only set of wounds present at the time. All those pieces of information are crucial for me to determine what species caused this attack.
Ideally id like to conclude that this was indeed an example of cougar predation but the wounds looks rather low “off-the-ground” to me. Both cougars and wolverines tend to climb the backs of their prey to reach and attack the neck.
My evaluation has concluded that this attack was caused by a juvenile cougar, who couldn’t climb the back of the horse quick enough, before it got away. Leaving tear lacerations along the leg of the horse, in a claw pattern.
Thanks Derek for all the great info! We could have used you’re expertise a month or so ago, when the whole City was abuzz over this attack.
I would agree that a cougar is most likely responsible and perhaps a juvenile as you suggest..BUT keep in mind there are no longer any Eastern Cougars NATIVE to Ontario(or NA for that matter)…they are now considered extinct, or at least extirpated from ON.
The real question (for me) is whether this is the work of an escaped captive cougar or an animal which has migrated from the west…and the chance that this was a wolverine is just about nil.
Thanks again!
Outdoorsguy
Cougar was my first thought. Coywolf was my second. I saw a cougar in Montgomery county back when I was 12 years old. It was a friends birthday and her mother took us to a large park to hike around. We were on a trail just walking and laughing, being kids. I saw a glimmer in the woods to my right, maybe 30 feet from us. I looked but it’s the woods and a lot of people walk around with shiny things so I didn’t think much of it. A few minutes later I heard rustling and looked again, didn’t see anything. We had walked for about half an hour or so and I saw that shimmer again. This time when I looked I saw the cat. I stopped and whispered for them to look. When Rachels mom saw it she grabbed us and we started walking back towards the car. Rachels mom walked almost backward watching behind us and into the woods beside us. The cat was beautiful and didn’t seem to want anything more than to just watch us. On the walk back we saw and heard nothing, but now that I know they are here I am very cautious in the woods. This was in 1997-98. It was about mid day when we saw him or her. Another animal I have recently learned about by sheer luck is the coywolf. About 5 years ago I was driving home from the store. It was winter, and nighttime. A *dog* ran in front of me and I braked to avoid hitting it. It was awesome looking, very large. I thought at first that someone’s wolf hybrid had gotten out, it looked like a wolf mixed with husky, with a nice red/grey/white color. After the rest of the pack barreled past I instantly knew, this is no pet. They were FAST. And they were huge! I had never heard of, or seen an animal like this so I started asking old timers (hunters/trappers) and they told me of coywolves. I hit the internet and bam, I found pics that look exactly like what I saw. I don’t walk around town at night anymore, and I don’t let my kids or dogs in the yard alone past dark. Honestly, I don’t really let any of us out past dark. A pack that size, if they came in the yard we would be done for. They were about 8 strong when I saw them.
I respectfully disagree with your conclusions. mystery animal IS SASQUATCH likely 99%. Why?? Many have seen it Ontario including several veteran police officers. Google Sasquatch Ontario. read detailed sighting reports. Go to Survivorman Bigfoot Volume 1-6 on You tube and watch all accompanying evidence. Squatching with Survivorman March 2017 1 hour plus interview Les Stroud and Talk Show host.Conclusions of 5 year study to date. Les Does not Lie only reports his findings. Seen in over 120 countries worldwide. 200 million plus audience on discovery channel.Go to you tube Missing 411 or Canam project. David Paulides. Dr. Jeff Meldrum professor Idaho univerisity. Go to Sasquatch Central on youtube. Tons of interesting live videos,stories and great accompanying evidence.750 videos.You Tube;The Clearest Images of Bigfoot Compilation 1-34. 1,000 still photos , most VERY Clear from North Amercian local papers of still images captured by smartphone users everywhere.Patterson Gimili?? Wow are you WRONG and naive.
Numerous ongoing up to date examination by many documentaries,Discovery,history channel etc. continue to prove it is REAL. Man in monkey suit. NEVER proven. Let’s see what ridiculous evidence you have to disprove it. All experts I have seen on youtube would say you are 100% wrong. Wow footprints or lack of?? You obviously DO NOT know any info. on this?? First have been shown and stories by 1,000’s of witnesses continue to confirm that most of the time on all fours mimicking other animals. However can curl arms and legs up leaving only very small thumps in ground,quickly washed away by inclement weather and no tracks most of the time.Or you think tracks of small known animals. You tube Sasquatch central to see actual videos indicating strong evidence they spend/move through trees in the forest and never leave tracks. You tube Sasquatch Ontario and please watch 1-13 videos Mike Paterson and US documentary Chris Munch 5 year studies on a Family Clan of Bigfoots in City Of Kawartha Lakes Ontario. with AMAZING VOCALIZATIONS/Communications,evidentary footprint photos,still pictures etc. Us talk radio shows OHIO,LA even New Zealand hugely impressed. Millions of you tube hits.
DNA evidence 5 year Study Major universities,crime Labs and Dr.s PHDs on samples independentally tested in 14 states and 2 provinces all showing very similar results withn NO chance of contamination possible. Nuclear,mitrochondrial DNA. Some had tried to debunk it but no one who steps forward CAN. Internet trolls etc. How credible is that???
100’s in Ontario swear to have seen one. Some extremely credible people. I know I SAW one alone while hiking. I know another OPP staff sargent who separately saw another colored one.Just stop you very limited media couch potato responses and obvious lack of knowledge on this subject. DNA results; Partial human,Partial Hybrid/Humanoid,13.000 year plus ancient missing link and partial UNKNOWN. that’s right NOT FROM THIS PLANET 20x…
Do you know if the horse has this on the other back leg too? Because I think this happened to my horse too. I’m trying to figure out what happened. I’ve searched all over the pasture, no signs of blood and he couldn’t hurt himself in the pasture that we know of. And there we a cougar sighting.
Kaitlyn, in this case of this particular injury, it was limited to just that one side but could have easily been both sides depending on the angle of attack.
What region are you in and what cougar sighting are you referring to?
Sorry to hear about your horse’s injury.
Outdoorsguy