Every once and awhile, a needless and wasteful act involving fish & wildlife comes up and it gives all honest hunters and conservationists a bad name.
This is one such case….
Below are images taken of a deer carcass discovered this past weekend in our very own Marlborough Forest. The disturbing photos clearly show the carcass of a whitetail buck stripped of its antlers, back strap and very little else in my opinion.
The remainder of the animal was then draped over a fence post and left to rot. Both front shoulders remain in tact, and you will clearly see where the backstraps were removed.
One theory put forward is that the carcass was laid out as bait for bears, in the few days of the Ontario bear season that remain.
There is also no indication whether this deer was harvested legally, or even tagged, but the waste of meat in this case is blatant!
Since the MNR – Kemptville office is currently investigating this incident, no names are being released at this time and the term ‘poaching’ will not be used.
I find it very difficult to believe someone would stoop to this; given the fact that whitetail populations in most regions are in rebuild mode….it’s a bloody shame!
Please be warned these images may seem graphic to some:
Outdoorsguy
Not to defend the wasting of the front quarters but this looks to me like the skin and front quarters were dumped after the deer was skinned, the antlers, hind quarters, tenderloins and blackstrap removed/preserved.
I see no reason to assume all the meat was wasted based on the pictures shown. If the meat was wasted why skin the deer at all.
Rick, obviously not all the meat was wasted…but only the best cuts were retained.
I have heard of this quick field-dressing with caribou up north…to save on weight packing the animal out…but I’ve never seen deer treated like this.
Outdoorsguy
I think the reason this is so shocking to me is that fact that, on the Quebec side, this would be totally illegal!
Every deer harvested by a hunter must be taken out of the bush whole and registered at a government check station before any butchering can take place. This lowers the chances of illegally taken game meat being processed and hidden.
Outdoorsguy
I have been asking for that ever since i started going south to hunt “check stations” they are great and gives instant and acurate idea what is going on in the woods
To bad that rick feels that this deer was properly “preserved”. It sickens me that the poacher in question would leave a deer in this state after it had been shot. It never ceases to amaze me at what a person would do to attract a black bear, who knew that a rotting deer carcass would draw in ? The hunter in question should have his head examined. With any luck the MNR will have his liscence removed.
John nowhere did I say I feel that this action is proper.
The waste of the front quarters is not acceptable in any circumstance and is illegal.
Chessy and Jeff please explain to me how registration could have prevented this situation. What is to prevent the perpetrator (notice I did not say hunter) from doing this after he leaves the registration station?
The waste of the meat is illegal in Ontario Jeff!
I know of several hunt camps that use scrapes and guts from butchering their own deer as bait for coyote hunting. It is getting late for using a deer as bait for bear although with this warm weather some are still out.
I’m not saying registration would totally eliminate this type of situation..what I said was it ‘lowers the chances’ of someone being able to field butcher and conceal game taken illegally. I do realize that the waste of meat is also illegal here in ON..I meant that field butchering a deer and taking the rack out with a handful of meat is not legal in QC.
Again, not that I’m saying this would have prevented a wasting situation…but QC law also requires paperwork to accompany deer sent to a commercial butchering for processing.
Outdoorsguy
Rick, I did understand that you weren’t condoning the actions of this individual by the way…
In your experience, though, do a large number of hunters use the practise of ‘field-butchering’ with deer..I’ll call it that for lack of a better term…In my experience, I have only ever seen this done with moose. We were always in habit of taking them out whole.
Outdoorsguy
just to be clear , this was added to an existing bear bait in the past couple days, this was not dumped here as i’m sure some people do in the hopes of getting rid of some coyotes. this was placed , and securely wired and fastened to an existing bear bait . to make things more clear i have copied this directly from the ministry website
“Game Wildlife and Parts
You may not let the flesh of any harvested game wildlife (see
Definitions, page 86) which is suitable for food be destroyed,
spoiled or abandoned. This includes black bear. A hunter who kills a furbearing mammal shall not abandon the pelt or
permit the pelt to be spoiled or destroyed” …. pretty clear to me from what i can see there is still a substantial amount of meat left on this deer ( alot more than i have in my freezer at this point ) therefore a pretty clear violation in my books … why the M.N.R have not acted on this yet is beyond me , maybe a few extra complaints will get the ball rolling ….
Wow! Now this p*sses me off!!!!
I don’t have my regs book here, but I’m almost positive this is against the law in ON too. The MNR wouldn’t let this go without punishement (fine or otherwise). I had a CO tell me before that they really get fired up when they see people wasting meat in the field like this case.
This is a complete waste of meat and also complete disregard for the animal carcass. We should all do our best to use as much of the animal as possible. The rest of the meat from that upper body and neck could be made into hamburger meat in the least – as well as a neck roast or 2.
This isn’t right at all. I hate idiots like this who shed the bad light on us good hunters.
I haven’t been to Marlborough since last fall with my boys. I’ve been meaning to take them bird hunting, but it won’t happen this year, but every time I’ve gone, I’ve seen people walking the trails who weren’t hunting. To think that some non-hunters (not necessarily antis) might have seen this really ticks me off.
But not as much as the actual act itself.
losers!
The waste of any meat rick is not acceptable I agree , but by the pictures i’m looking at it seems to me that there is allot of good meat wasted at least 50 percent. I don’t order a burger and lick the ketchup off and throw the rest out. Who’s to say that the hind quarter is not at another bear bait ? Either way it is wrong and illegal , I agree . I’m all for using scraps of meat for a bait pile for wild game but by the look of these pictures this is more than a bait pile , this is a disgrace, and a complete waste.
The moron who did this should not be able to hunt again. It puts a bad image on truly ethical hunters.
There is allot to be done to ensure that there is a steady and healthy deer population , registration could certainly be a step in the right direction, mabey by cutting back on the deer nuisance permits allowed would certainly help too. There will always be that jack ass who feels that it is is right to do as he pleases, kill what he feels like and to trespass without any respect for others.
Jeff I suspect this incident is more about field dumping than field dressing.
I also suspect this will be more common this year as many butchers in this area have stopped taking deer because of the low numbers and government regs. that require game be separate from regular meat in coolers. I know of four butcher shops that have shut down.
More hunters are having to butcher their own deer and with a lack of experience/knowledge there will be more waste. These same hunters will need a place to get rid of the scraps. How many hunters have meat grinders for hamburger processing?
With the demise of the hides program many hides will need to be disposed of as well.
Ok, this is a sad state of affairs when the butcher shops are going out of business, and we have to witness a ‘hack job’ such as this. It’s the sort of kill scene I would have expected while watching Dexter last night!
Obviously this person knew enough about deer anatomy and butchering to find the prime cuts, and how to discard the rest. They owe it to the animal to make use of as much meat as possible..even if that means purchasing a commercial grade meat grinder.
Outdoorsguy
having a requirement to check in your game is like having hunters register their rifles and shotguns, the good ones do, the bad ones don’t.. I doubt it would have changed this disgusting act at all
I think it is quite legal to let your hides rot, we do that with moose hides every year and when we go back the following year, the hides are completly gone
Rick , believe me this was not someone dumping leftover deer parts !!!! this deer was not shot there it was shot somewhere else brought there and intentionally left to rot and attract bears , it was wired to the tree , believe me i know the difference between a scrap pile and a bear bait , i am a bear hunter myself. there is more deer left to waste than there was preserved , i butcher my own deer and it is not a complicated process , this deer could have easily been done in hamburger instead of wasted you can purchase a meat grinder for under a hundred bucks !!……… keep in mind this was placed at a bear bait which has been in the woods for over a month , as far as im concerned there are no excuses this kind of behaviour makes ALL hunters look bad and what bothers me more is the lack of action from our ministry of natural resources .. why do we pay so much for tags , liscensing etc. etc… when such a clear violation is handed to an officer like a gift ????? i read that during the rifle hunt officers and police where out in full force enforcing gun registry violations and misdemeanor charges against hunters , WHERE ARE THEY NOW???
Not sure about the requirement to check in your game. We ususally butcher our deer at the hunt camp and dispose of the left overs in da bush for nature to take care of it… If the requirement to requirement to check in your game would be mandatory in Ontario could we still butcher the deer at our hunt camp? I hope so because we have the knowledge and equipment to do it ourselves and we save a lot by processing it ourselves.
John p. i will lend my grinder to anyone who needs it . it is a 3/4 horse grinder .. it will do alot of deer in no time. all i ask is it to be cleaned i will lend any of my tools meat band saw, grinder and even a hobart 20 qt mixer to anyone in my area … there is absolulty no need for waste there is to many websites that guys will help or needy people that will take meat of and even use as stewing meat ..
they are in the office, out of gas and their gas cards are over their limit LOL
what exactly could/should they do, catch someone hunting near the bait? That doesn’t prove they were the ones who left the deer there, and even if they were, do you seriously think they would admit it.
“Sorry officer, I just saw the bait and thought it would be a good place to wait for a bear to come along”
The Marlborough Forest is crown land so anyone and everyone can hunt there
I guess my next deer hide and carcass I should hang from a tree and scatter through the bush ? Is that is the proper way to dispose of leftovers?
iggy what exactly should or could they do??? if you were hunting over such a bait would you not report it ???is someones trail cam photos of the culprit not enough ? how about maybe enforcing regulations that are written !!! like i have said in previous post this was handed to a C.O. with tonnes of info name address , photos , doesn’t get much easier ….yet not even a call back , makes me wonder why i bother buying deer seals every year …… i am absolutely stunned by the fact that this kind of behaviour is being defended by so called fellow “hunters “…… thats it for me i have done my part obviously a waste of time … thanks jeff for bringing this forward , good luck to all those respectful law abiding hunters out there for the remainder of the season !! in 25 years of hunting this is by far the most disgraceful i have seen…..and maybe the last .
“this was added to an existing bear bait in the past couple days, this was not dumped here as i’m sure some people do in the hopes of getting rid of some coyotes. this was placed , and securely wired and fastened to an existing bear bait .”
Matt do you have some inside knowledge of this incident? I can not tell from the photos that there is any wire present. It looks like the front half was impaled on the stump.
“Is that is the proper way to dispose of leftovers?” Obviously not!
OMG check out this story from Vermont… sad
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/28/vermont-man-kills-himself-after-fatally-shooting-friend-in-deer-hunting/
Yes rick i have seen this site.
This is a shameful and wasteful act; the entire neck and front quarters are left….brutal…he should be charged and his licence revoked.That is alot of meat in the front end for stew and ground etc…Ive butchered my own deer for 20yrs now and bone the animal out and grind it for sausage and burger…what a disgrace!!
For the record…
We are dealing with POACHERS… not hunters.
Was anybody able to tell if the deer was shot or hit by a car?
matt
did I miss something here, first of all, I didn’t read that there were trail cam pictures of these people.
Second, the MNR, like every law enforcement agency do a proper thorough investigation, sometimes that takes time, rushing investigations only causes mistakes and gets cases thrown out of court. Be patient.
How do we know this wasn’t a road kill that someone used as a bait. How do we know this wasn’t a coyote kill that went bad (rot) and someone used it legally as bait. We don’t know squat, so before people start flying off the handle, lets let the MNR do their jobs!
for the record look closely at the deer on the 4th pic from the bottom , clearly a bullet hole behind the front shoulder ..this is no road kill folks
well I did look at the picture, and it DOESN’T show anything CLEARLY
I would maybe suggest that clearly you have an axe to grind
Could this be why the MNR is taking their time?
Where are the pictures of the supposed perpetrators?
How did you find this place?
just wondering
BTW the fourth from the bottom is a distant picture
Let the MNR do their work, they are very good at it
Iggy, I think he’s perhaps fearful of jeopardizing the investigation by releasing too much information at this time..probably better if we leave certain things unsaid.
Trust me..if/when there are any developments in this case, you guys will be the first to know!
Outdoorsguy
Iggy 4th picture down sorry , you are ABSOLUTELY right i do have an axe to grind and if you call yourself a hunter or a sportsman you should too !!! anyone who shoots a deer to waste it in such a manner doesnt deserve to be hunting , so let me get this straight iggy is this the kind of thing YOU find acceptable ??? obviously for legal reasons pictures of this guy cant be posted here use some common sense bud.I can assure you i am not the only one who has seen this disgrace …this is like a slap in the face to ALL hunters i’m really not sure why your playin devils advocate on this but i guess someone always has to .. i do have an update though. a lil birdie told me that the MNR is investigating and they are taking this VERY seriously. You are right i could use a bit of patience on this… my bad but with the clock ticking on the end of bear season tomorow maybe you could excuse my impatience and i do appologize
All that really needs to be said is, pathetic truly pathetic.its sad that people can have such little respect for our heritage,and the animal taken.
I dont think the mnr has to leave their desk at all.. with today’s technology and law abiding people, we should rat every SOB out that we come across . yes the mnr can come out for the odd joy ride but when we call they should act and most times they do… good things will come of this, it will enlighten alot of people and may get them to call their local department the next time they see something. Its our right and responsibility to call.
no question from what ive heard they are severely under staffed , i have heard stories of C.O’s having to pay for their own fuel etc.. really too bad .i agree chessy this article will hopefully serve notice to these idiots that just because your off in the woods it doesnt mean your invisible .maybe keep a few people on their toes so to speak…. i dont know if anyone else has noticed but in my 25 plus years of hunting it seems that in the past few years the respect level for peoples property, animals , and other hunters is on a steady decline is it just me or has anyone else gotten this impression?
@MATT
You are guaranteed the right to take photographs
If you are Canadian, you should already know your rights:
freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
~ Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, 2.b)
This guarantees your right to express yourself through photography, and the freedom to publish your photos. So, unless you are relieved of your rights (by being arrested, or notwithstanding clause), the Charter guarantees your right to take photographs of anything. That’s right, you can take photos of anything, and under regular circumstances, it is not against the law.
However, the charter only dictates the government’s role (ie. the RCMP can’t stop you from taking photos, just because they feel like it). The charter doesn’t relieve you of breaking other laws, nor common law (private citizen vs private citizen).
So, although you can take photos of anything, you must be sure not to break any laws, statutes, regulations or bylaws by either the act of taking the photographs, or possession of the photographs. The following are some laws, statutes and regulations that I’ve found:
Criminal Activities
I’m assuming that you have a least a little grey matter. If not, do yourself a favor and read the Criminal Code of Canada. Don’t do things like Breaking & Entering, Fraud or Personation, Mischief, Cruelty to Animals, etc.
Security of Information Act
This act is to protect Canada. Basically, do not do anything, or possess any photos that could be considered national secrets, interfere with a large number of Canadian’s lives, impair or threaten the Canadian Forces, national security or intelligence.
Avoid taking a photograph of any of the following, specifically in relation to national secrets, unless you have permission (preferably written) from a ranking official:
Arsenals
Armed forces establishments or stations
Factories
Dockyards
Mines
Minefields
Camps
Ships
Aircraft
Telegraph, Telephone, Wireless or signal stations or offices
Places used for the purpose of building, repairing, making or storing
any munitions of war or any sketches, plans, models or documents
relating thereto, or for the purpose of getting any metals, oil or
minerals of use in time of war
Any non-government military contributor
Any place that is, on the ground that information with respect thereto
or damage thereto would be useful to a foreign power
Now, this is not to say you can’t take a photo of the things listed above, consider an Air Show, or parade, for example. However, when the RCMP approaches you after you take a photo of a nondescript building, expect to be hastled about this act. Note, however, that this is treason-level laws, and for anyone to be prosecuted for this, it requires the Attorney General’s direct concent.
Realistically, the crown will have to prove that you possessed the photo, with intent to (or proof that you did) communicate it…
It would take a moron not to figure out that this deer was lung shot. But I guess there are morons born everyday ? right iggy . At least some one has the balls to do something about it instead of running his mouth.
Chessy you know me, I’m just saying that pictures don’t always tell the whole truth. Seen it too many times, seen too many hunt camps and hunters hold grudges and try to make things different than they realy are. I’d just as soon the MNR did take this serious, and if it’s the way it’s been made to look, I say throw the book at them, but let them do their job, don’t push them, and when the time comes they will act, on our behalf, not on a grudge. They represnt us
Iggy, I wonder if CO’s do a sort of ‘mental triage’ when it comes to natural resource law enforcement? You know, those cases which are very hard to prove they shy away from..without sufficient evidence…ie photos, witnesses, etc.
In most iron clad cases sent to me by the MNR head office as Press Releases..an MNR CO or Can Wildlife Service CO actually witnessed the act themselves…..in a lot of cases, they went undercover to catch wood-be thieves.
Getting a conviction in these cases is a given, but it situations where you have witnesses and photos, etc, it makes things a bit more difficult…
As I said, I wish I had a retired CO on here as an advisor. I wonder if Dave Arbour would be interested?
Rick, do you know anyone who might be interested…it doesn’t pay very well though.
Outdoorsguy
morning jeff i finnally got a very large doe with my crossbow durung a morning hunt on sunday it dressed out about 160 to 170 lbs happy finnally persistence payed off missed 3 big bucks though still see them on the cam had a scary instance where i hunt near Almonte that a blue truck had jacklighted a buck where i was at night i noticed with my thermal imaging device that the vehicle had no front plate 3 men in vehicle i approached the vehicle and informed the guys they were being watched and they had all of their guns loaded one of the passengers threatened me and i told him he then noticed the laser point at his seat and theyquickly backed off after i informed them that i am hunting with a special ops person just goes to show you that are assholes everywhere talk to you soon
Hey Mike, congrats on the deer! Too bad all the other crap had to come up.
Hopefully you were able to get a description of these guys and report their jack-lighting?
That’s pretty blatant poaching if you ask me..good thing they didn’t panic and try anything with you, that would not have been good!
Wonder how quickly the response time would have been had you reported the poachers to the police…ie OPP? Would they respond to such a call..my guess is they would.
Anyhow…good for you for putting the fear of lord in these guys, although it was sort of risky on your part.
Outdoorsguy
yah iggy i know you and you know me .. i call the mnr and spoke directly to the mnr over a guy that caught 6 salmon one over his limmit… i called the cops they took his information and licence number 3 days later the mnr officer called me back and said did you see him catch and retain 6 fish i said yes and i am willing to go to court. his reply was it was only one salmon and i have got bigger fish to fry than that seeing the guy lives in kingston …. i find if you dont stay on the warden on the little issues they just let it go by …
Chessy, that’s a drag. You’d think anything over the limit would be worth investigating?!
What about in mike jones’s situation? What is our best course of action when a crime (like jack-lighting) is in progress?
I guess we should always call the police first?
Outdoorsguy
Dave Arbour would be the place to start Jeff.
Things at the Kemptville office are not good. Moral seems to be very low.
Thanks Rick, I think I might ask him. Obviously a working CO would never be allowed to chat here and I understand that.
That’s a real drag about moral..sorry to hear that. I know Biologist Scott Smithers in the Kemptville office, and I’d love to interview him sometime..again, he probably wouldn’t be allowed.
Thanks for the info Rick!
Outdoorsguy
Jeff, just off the top, maybe it would be a good idea to have local area meetings before the yearly gun season and discuss any special phone info or violation info hotlines that could help the mnr staff on keeping the hunt legal and safe. All of the person’s that i hunt with have their weapons cased at dark and not a beer comes out until all is secured. However out of province hunters or blatent illegal hunting still goes on all the time when we hunt we set up a camera on a deer target that is about 200 yards in a field with a trail cam at the road and we do see quite a few vehicles slow down but rarely does some one engage in shooting. At the end of the day it is all about safety and you are responsible when you send a round out of your gun; whether a shotgun slug or a rifle round.
In Mike jones situation the guy that threatened me would be in jail he did it with a fire arm and I would have assumed the threat to be “real” I take pictures of every one that fishes illegal and pass them on but in this situation I would demand the officer follow through… I here the government of Ontario is going to make it easier for citizens arrest and make it lawful to detain someone (this comes from the Chinese store clerks case). It’s our responsibility to look after our heritage and wildlife .ps I am waiting at home right now for a warden to knock on my door and question me about my gang that hunted the second week of shotgun hunt when i was not here apparently some one shot a deer before meeting with the rest of the guys and there is some questions where he shot it… they visited the one guy last night (possibly a 250 dollar fine for possessing illeagly taken meat and 2800 dollars cause they butchard it themselves ) of the group of 10 no one was present when deer was shot but we are still responsible for possesing game meat taken illeagly … thank god i dont have any of the meat or hunted that day (more to follow )
Chessy, I guess I missed reading your comment this am..geez, good thing you weren’t involved the day of that hunt. My guess is, though, you’re a little too well informed and careful to let such a thing happen..I feel for the guys but obviously we need to mind our P & Q’s.
Outdoorsguy
I have the e-mail address of another retired CO, a good guy and a hunter too, met him in person from Adrian’s
Ontario Hunting Lodge board, if the Dave Arbor thing doesn’t work out
Oh awesome Iggs…I’d appreciate that!
I’m putting together a letter for Dave as we speak…
Outdoorsguy
I’ll e-mail him first and tell him you will contact him, then send you his e-mail
That would be great Iggs..and please tell him I’ll do my best not to embarrass him..
Outdoorsguy
I sent him the e-mail and a link to this thread, I haven’t spoken to him in a while. We’ll see what comes of it
he answered my e-mail and I’m confident you’ll be hearing from him
I don’t remember a season in the last 18 years, that I was not able to fill my deer tag.
This year, so far I still have my deer tag, and have not had the chance to harvest, or even see one, while in any of my stands to date.
It sickens me to see the photos of this disgraceful waste of venison, not to mention the lack of respect for an animal, that we all love to hunt.
I would gladly have in my freezer right now what this so called hunter has taken for granted, and wasted.
What is the difference between humans like this, and coyotes ?
We need to protect our heritage, and reputations as respectful hunters, fisherman, and sportsmen.
We, as hunters, especially in a case like this need to support each other.
I see some of you questioning, and hacking a responsible individual, who has brought forward a situation, which in my opinion is very justified, and makes me feel good, that there are still guys out there, that care when clearly, the rules we abide by, are being severely broken.
Lets stick together guys !!!
I promise you, the anti hunters are !!!
Eric, thanks for the terrific comment and Kudos for the pep-talk..you are absolutely right and to be completely honest I was hoping this terrible situation, if nothing else, would have the effect of uniting all good hunters and conservationists. I believe it has, and the outcome of this will be something we can all celebrate!
It seems we all have the best of intentions and the sort of behaviour in the photographs is a rare occurrence..trust me…in case any non-hunters are reading.
You bring up the lack of respect and others have also noted the same..that, to me, is the worst part. As an outdoor writer once wrote..we hunt deer not because we hate them, but rather because we love them. I personally wouldn’t be able to sleep at night if I had treated an animal that way.
Outdoorsguy
Thanks Jeff !
I feel we all need to set a proper example, for our kids, and grandkids, and keep our heritage, as far as hunting,and fishing go, because if we don’t…………It will be gone.
There are no video games out there, that can make your heart beat out of 3 layers of clothing, when a buck finally shows up in front of your stand………….and never will be ………!
Are we sure the deer was hunted? I pick up the odd road kill and typically only keep the bits that aren’t bruised all to hell, the rest is spoiled so I use it for bait or dog food. In any event the deer would be skinned completely to find out what parts are still edible. It is also nothing particularly special to see substantial bruising and blood on the tissue.
hi jeff just thought you may find this funny as i was checking my spot last evening just at the edge of dark i observed several deer under a very large apple tree in my special field i call the gold mine one of the bucks was running all over dragging his head as i got a better look i noticed he had an apple stuck on one of his antlers and was having a hell of a time trying to dislodge the apple he was shaking his head vigorously but the apple wouldn’t fall off as night fall neared i lost visual sight of the buck but thought you might find that amusing some of the deer try to bump some of the larger branches and must have caused apples to drop and one must have dropped right on the bucks head he appeared to be a 6 or 8 pt could;t tell for sure hope to bag one of these deer next week on the muzzleloader season as in the rut
Ah Mike..that’s funny! Too bad you didnt have a good vid cam with you..you’d be a youtube sensation!
Outdoorsguy
hi jeff not sure what happened to my last posting but just to lighten up your day last evening i was watching several deer attempt to eat apples from a massive tree where i hunt and one of the bucks had an apple stuck on his antler i thought this was funny as he desperately tried to shake it off. There must be atleast 500 or more big apples still on the tree our cam showes 3 or 4 big trophy bucks entering and exiting the field i’ll try and send you some pics i hope this tree is a positive for next week really exited and this one particular field has been a gold mine for years
No worries Mike, I actually need to be at my computer to moderate all the comments. If you see your comments sitting there, in future, it just means I stepped away from desk.
Outdoorsguy
Hi Jeff
It disturbs me that anyone would treat an animal/carcass in this manner, regardless if it was hunted or a road kill. I teach students to respect all animals and be true to our heritage as hunters.
I have great confidence that the officers from the MNR that are investigating the case will give all their effort to solve this case. In my experience, respectable hunters and conservationists will assist them with information that will aid them in their investigation and if it is found that the carcass was a road kill or bait for bears that a less offensive way of placing the carcass will be explained to the individual(s) involved for the future.
If anyone should have information, I would like to remind them that they can leave annoymous tips with Crime Stoppers.
Thanks for bringing this important topic to your forum as it is important to remind hunters that we are all a fraternity and the actions of one will affect the future of all of us as hunters.
Dave
Dave, thanks so much for stopping-by!
Im sure you may be bombarded with questions but I can assure you, here you will find the cream of the crop when it comes to hunters and conservationists!
Outdoorsguy
Saw a monster buck this morning in Kanata stuck to a doe. There were a couple of smaller bucks hanging around them so I can only imagine the doe was close to estrous. The big boy wouldn’t let her get more than 20 yards from him… Looks like the rut is still going on. Tried to get some pictures with my phone but no go.
Dave,
As a trapper, I will typically hang carcasses and the like in trees to feed the cats/birds/etc. It keeps the animal from rotting as quick and allows the scent to travel greater distances. Heck I have 2 beavers in the freezer along with some porcupines that will be ending up in the trees this weekend. Not entirely sure why letting a deer rot on the ground is offensive as compared to leaving it available to feed animals through the winter …
I think it is best here to let the investigation to occur and determine whether or not this is actually a crime before getting out the torches and pitch forks.
Rob, just wondering…did you ever find that big boy you were looking for?
Outdoorsguy
Rob, thanks, that was exactly my point too. If an animal was killed by a human for bear bait, that is a disgrace, but we don’t know that yet, and I say let the MNR do their job, don’t rush them, if you have information like matt had, the best thing is to give this information to the MNR and let them figure things out. Things aren’t always as they seem, that’s why these guys are specially trained in investigation
Hi Jeff.
It sickens me to see all the poaching that goes on , especially here in Renfrew where I live
Case in point. There is a guy named …………. who lives here in Renfrew who poached a big buck on October 30 2011. He shot it with his rifle while hunting for bear on his property around Mount St Patrick. He did not even go and look for it until the next evening. By then the meat had spoiled, so he just cut off the head for a trophy and brought it to a taxidermist. He then proceded to brag about shooting it with his crossbow. He shot it out of season and then just let the meat spoil!!!
Poaching hurts us all, how do we stop it???
Slim
Slim, it sounds like you have more than enough evidence to report this guy and hand over your evidence to a CO..and I’m sure the MNR would investigate. It seems hard to believe someone would be so brazen like that and then brag about.
Sorry I had to moderate your comment, I realized I’m not allowed to have details like that posted here. Of course, should he be convincted if said act, that’s another story.
Outdoorsguy
Iggy, rob , believe me for the last time i have seen many of deer skinned out there is a bullet hole through the hide as well as the carcass that match , this deer WAS LUNG SHOT , NO QUESTION , there is an entrance hole and an exit hole. it’s not my first rodeo guys and believe me im no liar either .. and since nobody has asked dave a question yet maybe i’ll be the first .
Dave as a bear hunter are you required to remove a clean up your bait site as well when bear season is finished ?
http://rltrapping.ca/big_guy.jpg
Nope, he’s still alive and kicking, and so far, I haven’t found where he is during the day time, and I’ve followed his tracks for a 1/2 dozen km before losing them.
Matt, I know you have been at this poachers site, Have you heard anything from the MNR ?
Are they investigating ?
Hi Jeff,
I sure hope the authorities get to the bottom of this wasteful act. When I think back to deer hunting in the
7O’s when our deer populations was at an all time low after the bad winter’s of 1969 to 1971,there was
no deer but we hunted anyway. It sure would have been nice to have a taste of venison in those years.They
shortened the season back then to 4 days. No doe tags and easer winters helped bring back the populations.
We didn’t have the coyotes abundance then either. A couple of bad winters and we could be back there again. No deer hunter wants to see those years.
Best of luck to all you black powder hunters next week.
Barry
Hey Barry, my father has told me stories of those lean years and NO, I would never want to go back there again!
Outdoorsguy
matt, I trust everything your saying, I honestly believe you, my point is, you’ve done your duty, now let the MNR do theirs. My earlier point was that the pictures don’t show us lookers very much, yes there is bruising where a bullet might have went through, and there may be an obvious pass through on the hide, but from here, I can’t see it, but I do believe you, now we’ll see what comes of it
and to Slim, read Dave Arbour’s post, call Crime Stoppers, it is our responsibility to protect our sport
OK Guys..this brings me to some glaring questions..following the comments from Mike Jones, Slim and others:
How do we decide WHO to contact if we are witness to a Natural Resources-related crime?
Does it depend on the severity of the crime? Does it depend on whether it’s a crime in progress? If you’re outside of CITY limits, do you call someone else?
Can the MNR keep you anonymous if you witness something but don’t want to be involved? These are some nagging questions with a huge amount of ‘grey area’ in my opinion…
Dave, if you could shed some light on this at all, it would be greatly appreciated?
Outdoorsguy
call CrimeStoppers and ask them, time to put on your reporters hat Jeff
My thought is they say you remain anonymous, but if your the witness, I say impossible
if it’s a crime in progress call 911
Sorry Iggs, I don’t own one of those hats…
Outdoorsguy
Report a Violation
Some Areas Natural Resources Violations May Occur:
– fishing
– hunting
– forestry
– aggregates
– petroleum
– water
– agriculture
– species at risk
– crown lands
– forest fire
– parks
All Ontarians can play a part in protecting our natural resources from waste, abuse and depletion. If you are witness to a resource violation within Ontario, please call the Ministry of Natural Resources TIPS line at:
1-877-TIPS-MNR (847-7667)
In order to investigate an occurrence, it will assist an officer to know the following information:
Nature of violation
Vehicle information
Location of violation (address, county, township, municipality, lot, concession)
Particulars of violation, other relevant information
The TIPS-MNR reporting line is not an emergency response telephone number. If you are calling to report public safety matters please call 911 or the police.
Great work Chessy..I think we should give you the reporter’s hat!
Outdoorsguy
I ‘m a good goooogggglllleeeerrr at least thats what the wife says 🙂
So Mr Googler…I mean Chessy, what ever happened with the boys that day you didnt hunt and all the poop went down?
If you want to send me a pm that’s fine too..hopefully it all worked out ok?
Outdoorsguy
QUOTE: jeff.morrison says:
December 2, 2011 at 1:36 pm
Sorry Iggs, I don’t own one of those hats…
Outdoorsguy
END QUOTE
but you’re the Outdoors Guy, we expect nothing less
oh man, now I’m stuck!
Outdoorsguy
Hi Jeff
I do want to report this guy, however he has already threatened me. How do I do it anonymously??
Slim
Slim, the tips line (1-877-TIPS-MNR (847-7667) Chessy mentioned earlier, I believe, can be anonymous if you request it.
Outdoorsguy
@ eric , still no news ….. im afraid if they havent been there by now to investigate there wont be much left of the evidence other than these photos… mother nature is slowly destroying the evidence and helping out this guy as each day passes…
Very sad news Matt ! MNR must really be busy, I guess.
All may not be lost Eric & Matt, let’s give them the benefit of the doubt for now.
They did give an indication they’d be looking into it..and plus that, if they’ve been on the Internet at all they’d know we’re all watching and waiting..hehe
Outdoorsguy
Thanks Jeff, I think I will call and report him, . I hope they investigate, he has been involved in poaching activities for a long time.
Slim
I am keeping a close eye on this, only because I have heard in the past of many violations being reported
I’ll try that again…….I am keeping a close eye on this, only because I have heard in the past of many violations being reported
, but never acted on. I know we are all on the same side, but is there an under staffing issue ?
I have no idea, but have heard our hunting fees, tags etc go into road consruction, and other areas.
Does anyone know this to be a fact ?
I got nothing to hide…. this is his story and the mnr story … he was told not to hunt this area it was told to the “camp captain” and the message was relayed to all . the guy was driving down road seen deer in field .. walked to fence line shot deer, drove down road 100 yards opened gate drove back to deer and taged it and brought it back to gate while all this happened there was a guy leagley hunting in the same prop. he got out of his stand walked to his truck and reported it… we have not heard back from the mnr . but there was 11 officers at his house (shooter) and 2 at the camp captains house. with this many officers there must be more to the story. with this many officers 13 to investagate the deer .. if this goes to court there will be 13 officers in court sounds like they are padding there overtime… but if this guy did what he did they should throw the book at him.. he will no longer be allowed to hunt with me or the gang even if he gets off
if this is the case and alot of good tips are not being followed up on then maybe it is time we call the local mpps and find out why .. i wonder if it is freedom of information act if you can see how many tips are called in and how many are acted on.. but i think a letter or a call to your loacal mpps office is in order
As Rob St Dennis suggests I too have a variety of carcasses nailed to a tree as bait for song birds, squirrels, fisher, raccoon, fox, coyotes, woives etc. It’s an effective way to keep a bait sight active and prevent the ravens and turkey vultures from consuming it to quickly.
How do we know this deer wasn’t a road kill ?
ps: stats to date…1 moose, 1 deer, 30 beaver, 6 coons, 2 otter, 4 mink, 50 muskrats, 1 fisher…..more to come.
Chessy, I would think a majority of those officers were Deputy CO’s which is a volunteer position I believe similar to auxilliary police units.
So Let me ask this question… A friend of mine sold his home and he is getting rid of the content of his freezer….Some of the meat (pork ribs, roast, etc) and some of the meat is dated 2008 and earlier… it looks like it is freezer burned…
No one wants the meat because it’s freezer burned and not willing to give it to a food shelter, etc…….would it be ok to bring this “meat” bought at a grocery store and nail it to a stump to feed song birds, squirrels, fisher, raccoon, fox, coyotes, woives etc? of course off the beaten path… comments ?
if it it freeser burned and is not edible for human consumption then he let a game animal spoil and is if found out could be charged with letting a game animal spoil…
also one other thing unless they have changed the mnr tip line you must identifiy yourself… if you want to remain anynomouse you must call crime stoppers and they will foward the information off to the mnr but your information(where infraction took place when how ect) must be bang on for crime stoppers to relay message
“To report a natural resources violation please call the toll free 1-877-TIPS-MNR reporting line at any time.
For anonymous calls please contact Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-TIPS.”
so why even have the tips line does not make sence to me
Here’s a link to the mnr website i think all these infractions were a result from as public tip .wow ..there are a pile of em
http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/Enforcement/2ColumnSubPage/273460.html
Trapper I went down that road already and was sufficiently scorned for such thoughts
here’s another link to some more recent convictions.. looks like they have been pretty busy
http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/Enforcement/2ColumnSubPage/STEL02_164545.html
@ chessy but it’s not game animal???
Wow didn’t realise the MNR posted names and convictions … a couple of poachers from Orleans and one from Navan… pretty close to home…and their hunting (poaching) grounds , very very close to where we hunt moose… Glad they got a lifetime ban…. every year we see adult moose and no tags…. we simply enjoy and take videos and pictures… glad to see the MNR is doing there work…
ooppss… i thought that the 2008 meat was deer my bad…. i cant see there being a law against that..
Are there newer convictions than 2009 ? Maybe a lack of my computer skills ?
Never mind……it was my lack of my computer skills….lol
Don’t waste your time lads………there are about 3 different numbers you can call, but guess what…….
they are not showing up , unless there is moose, or bear involved . If you are hunting off of a road, make sure you have all of your paper work in order, before exiting the bush back to your vehicle………not like the old days, these guys dont walk into the bush………..Ridiculous ! I have lost all respect for the MNR…………Useless !
the mnr from my understanding is not allowed to walk in the bush … that would be classed a interfering with a lawful hunt, waiting at the truck is best for you and them… i dont blame them one bit for waiting ….
Today’s Conservation officer is completely different from yesterday’s game warden unfortunately. I have the upmost respect for each and every one of them and applaud them for the job that they do. And in my opinion anyone who is convicted of a game and fish act offence should loose their hunting or fishing priviledges for life.
They are law enforcement officers working for a non law enforcement agency, the best thing that could happen to them is that they become a division of the OPP as part of a special branch of law enforcement which could also include MTO inspectors, Ministry of Environment officers, Ministry of Labor etc……
Trapper, didnt the MNR CO have the same powers as the OPP at one time? I guess that isn’t the case any longer.
Welcome back btw..are you back in town for awhile?
Sounds like you had a good fall!
Outdoorsguy
hi jeff just letting you know one of my crew was out this am muzzleloeader hunting and again some asshole is shooting off the road in my area i am at work and am off on wednesday and thursday and if i catch these guys they will not be driving their vehicle away this time it is very frustrating when you have morons that think they own all of the areas around Almonte
i will be calling mnr as we have people shooting off the road at deer in my area this monday dec 5 am at 7:10 this morning we couldn’t pinpoint the location but we have an idea
@ trapper, I agree I think after witnessing this first hand I think there needs to be some change. its quite obvious they are overwhelmingly understaffed , underpowered and overworked and in the mean time poachers are well aware of this and are taking full advantage of the situation what a damn shame…..
In the back and forth mode now Jeff…..Heading back to camp momentarily.
CO’s have same powers as OPP, as do all Police officer’s have same authorities as a CO with exception of some federal fisheries issues but they rarely rely on it.
As for having a good year, you are correct. In fact we are up to our eyeballs with fur, First shipping day is this Wednesday for the first sale in January. Hoping for good fur prices.
the police can enforce the fish and game act but they refuse to do so ..
In case you’re looking for something else to ponder, here’s the latest Post:
http://blogs.canoe.ca/outdoorsguy/hunting/coyotes-running-rampant-in-ottawa/
Outdoorsguy
Chess, I’d say it’s more a case of they’re smart not to as opposed to they refuse to….Better off leaving the expertise to the experts rather than create bad case law…..would you want your Dentist performing heart bypass surgury on you ?
Trapper..good analogy but wouldn’t a ‘Dental surgeon performing a heart bypass’ be even better..we have agreed that law enforcement of different areas have the same powers…and I guess the point is, if no one else is around at the time, we’d like someone to do something about it.
Just like if you were stranded on a desert island and really needed a heart bypass…and the only person around was the dental surgeon, I suppose you’d stand a better chance with someone who at least has surgical (i.e law enforcement) experience, even if it’s in a different area.
Ok, this is just getting weird..hehe
Outdoorsguy
Hi Jeff
Well I reported that poacher from Renfrew to the MNR, and you know what? The way he was talking I don’t even think that they are going to investigate this guy.!!! Its a sad situation when you report a poacher and the MNR can’t even bother to check it out !!! I mean, this guy is a hard core poacher. He hunts deer out of season. He hunts deer at night. He gets people he knows to apply for tags and then uses their tags ( they don’t even hunt deer) He poaches 5 or 6 bucks every year. He hunts with his rifle during the archery season. ect…ect……. and still the MNR wont investigate !!!! There is something terribly wrong here!!!! No wonder poacher s run rampant, they know they will not get caught!!!! Its a pretty disgusting situation!!!!!!!!!
Slim